PHL problems and solutions (equipment)
- Thread starter libertybell
- Start date
OK genius, yet another post where you clearly do not know what you are talking about and in your intent to dispute me, you both support my post and make yourself read uninformed.
While block heaters may warm the fuel (through heat transfer into the remaining fuel in the lines), they are used to keep the engine warm. Specifically the oil and coolant in the engine along with the block. If the intent was the fuel, then why wouldn't they install "fuel tank warmers?" Hmmmmmm.
You don't have a clue. You must be management.
Common Diesel Fuel/Fuel Filter Problems in Winter
Diesel engine power loss during winter operation conditions is a common occurrence and a source of complaint. Unless there is a component failure within the engine, the problem can usually be traced back to gel formation in the fuel which restricts fuel flow through the fuel filter(s). Frequently, the fuel filter(s) are blamed for the problem when, in fact, the problem is caused by the effect of winter weather on diesel fuel.
Number 2 diesel fuel begins to cloud as the ambient temperatures drop toward the freeze point, 32 degrees F (0 degrees C). This clouding is the result of the wax (paraffin) in the fuel solidifying. As the temperatures drop below the freeze point, the paraffin molecules combine to become solids in the fuel which eventually become large enough to be stopped by the media within the fuel filter(s). This is commonly known as the gel point which generally occurs at approximately 15 degrees F (-9.5 degrees C) below the cloud point. The wax will then begin to form a restrictive coating on the filter media which results in a loss of engine power. The same process occurs when starting a cold engine with the ambient temperature below freezing. The fuel filter(s) media becomes almost instantly coated with a restrictive layer of wax. Usually, enough fuel can pass this layer to allow the engine to idle, but not enough fuel to allow the engine to attain operating RPM.
There are two commonly used methods to overcome the problem. One is to chemically treat the fuel with a diesel additive. The other is to install a fuel heater.
1. Diesel fuel additives are available under numerous brands and with various formulations. When selecting an additive, it is important to determine whether or not it is formulated for winter conditions. Basically, diesel fuel additives designed for use in winter conditions depress or lower the gel point of the diesel fuel, thereby allowing it to flow through the fuel for the desired operating temperature range should be adhered to, as a deviation could yield either unsatisfactory results or harm the systems.
2. A diesel fuel heater can be installed in the fuel delivery system to prevent wax from accumulating on the fuel filter media. There are many different types with different points of installation, but they are all designed to maintain fuel temperature above the cloud point to the fuel heater which will deliver at a temperature above the cloud point to the fuel filter(s) at the lowest ambient temperature common to the area in which the equipment will be operating.
Many operators of diesel powered equipment use both a fuel additive and a fuel heater.
Another problem experienced with diesel engines is water or condensation contamination of the fuel. Due to the fact that diesel fuel also acts as a lubricant for injector tips and nozzles and the fact that water does not provide lubrication, many operators install fuel filter water separators to provide additional protection. Water or condensation present in the fuel can further aggravate the problem of fuel gelling by further restricting fuel flow through the filters as well as corroding injector nozzles. However, it is important to remember that any fuel water separator must be drained periodically to remove any water which has collected. Failure to do so may cause an engine power loss, either as a result of the undue water build up within the device restricting fuel flow or by fuel flow velocity carrying water on through the system when the water level in the device becomes too high.
Therefore, depending on the severity of winter operating conditions, many operators may choose to protect their equipment by the use of fuel additives, fuel heaters and fuel water separators.
First of all, go do another search, maybe Google this time on "non sequiter." That will direct you to my answer to your "You don't have a clue. You must be management" comment. You, by your admission, stated "I'll be honest with you, I never knew there was diesel fuel that was winterized." Are you management?
Next, while your post, albeit someone elses answer and description, gives accurate information on the issue, it disputes neither my point nor the intial intent of my post. I (even though I am management), have worked in cold weather states all my work career. The type of fuel in the diesel vehicles has never been the real problem during cold weather operations in our vehicles (or the other six companies I have worked for). The glow plugs in the engines and block warmers are more than sufficient to get the engine started after a cold soak.
There is a point in the information you provided that indicated one of our previous problems. Water in the fuel. We had a problem in the past where mechanics used to put fuel, sumped from aircraft fuel tanks, in our vehicles which gave our GSE mechanics big headaches, but that has gone away with some good communication.
Other than that unless it had a low battery, I have started tugs, tractors, deice trucks, mtc vans, bread trucks and many other diesel vehicles by simply using the cold weather start procedures for the vehicles. Since, at all the airports I have worked on, all the carriers use the same fuel, why would you people on here post as if US's management is the one to be at fault for vehicles that do not start.
I am just wondering when people would use logic verses hatred and blame to correct our problems??
Next, while your post, albeit someone elses answer and description, gives accurate information on the issue, it disputes neither my point nor the intial intent of my post. I (even though I am management), have worked in cold weather states all my work career. The type of fuel in the diesel vehicles has never been the real problem during cold weather operations in our vehicles (or the other six companies I have worked for). The glow plugs in the engines and block warmers are more than sufficient to get the engine started after a cold soak.
There is a point in the information you provided that indicated one of our previous problems. Water in the fuel. We had a problem in the past where mechanics used to put fuel, sumped from aircraft fuel tanks, in our vehicles which gave our GSE mechanics big headaches, but that has gone away with some good communication.
Other than that unless it had a low battery, I have started tugs, tractors, deice trucks, mtc vans, bread trucks and many other diesel vehicles by simply using the cold weather start procedures for the vehicles. Since, at all the airports I have worked on, all the carriers use the same fuel, why would you people on here post as if US's management is the one to be at fault for vehicles that do not start.
I am just wondering when people would use logic verses hatred and blame to correct our problems??
Kind of reminds me of a story a few years back, we had a new manager on the line who was not used to winter operations. Well we had a really cold day and as we had learned you just leave all the pushback tugs running during the operational day. He did not agree to this policy and ordered all to shut down the tugs when not in use, tried to explain but to no avail!!! So when time came for the bank to push needless to say there were many, many delays, as there were only two wreckers working the field. Bottom line its common sense, equipment is old and needs a bit of TLC.
are you aware that diesel fuel and jet-a are damn near identical? like about half a pound different in weight per gallon....so if what you say is correct,why don't they store the planes inside in cold weather??
under normal temp's a diesel will start using only compression alone....the glow plug is used to help starting in cold weather climates.
and the hard start issue is the crankcase oil becomes thick thus making cranking very hard and difficult to achieve light off speed while the battery also loses some capacity due to temperature combing to make it hard to get going.
check this out:
Thank you.
I can't agree with you more. That was an extreme use of the "do not leave vehicles running while unattended" policy. As long as we apply our logic and common sense and let the very, very experienced and qualified employees run the operation, things will work out.
What we do not need, is all the "reinventing of the wheel" or rather what I clearly read on these boards as preparations for the "I told you so's." Yes, things will go rong, the nature of the business predicits it. The "I told you so," and "managements fault," and "Doug is no better" and "As long as A.C. is still around" are coming. I can read it now. :down: The preparations have begun.
hells bells bob...i see you don't discriminate.....
i thought it was the unions dude.....oh todays monday...i'm sorry.
they can be management issues but they can also be responsibilities delegated to the lead mechanics...
Back this up. When did I blame the rampers or any other employee for that matter. Quit trying to be a hero to employees.
Thank you for your loyalty to this company which ultimately pays my bills.
Now, if you think I am going to let you or anybody else (employee or customer) blame me for something I do not do (blame my fellow employees), you have my total attention coming to you.
Don't come on here trying to be a hero to my fellow employees, they know what I go through. The employees I work with, like me and know I back them up. That is why I have taken a lot of hits for them. You do not know me or how I work or deal with my fellow employees and not even in my posts could you read that. You , like others on here read into certain postings as you wish.
Stay out of my back yard. I have never entered yours.
Go ahead, back up where I blamed MY fellow employees on this topic.
MarkMyWords
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,900
- 1
Bob -
Your bashing of PITMTC is unfair. You have no idea who he is and what role he plays in the "management" ranks. Your assumption that every "manager" played a role in what happened last year and the problems we have now is way off base. How do you know he had any control over anything? How do you know if he is a low level manager and may have touted solutions that fell on deaf ears? To slam him, or any other manager in this company, without FACTS that point to some sort of short coming on their part, is irrespeonsible. You can Bash MPA all you want because the proof is there that he has direct responsibility for the events of last year. but to bash and berate someone because they admitt they are a manager is deplorable.
Your bashing of PITMTC is unfair. You have no idea who he is and what role he plays in the "management" ranks. Your assumption that every "manager" played a role in what happened last year and the problems we have now is way off base. How do you know he had any control over anything? How do you know if he is a low level manager and may have touted solutions that fell on deaf ears? To slam him, or any other manager in this company, without FACTS that point to some sort of short coming on their part, is irrespeonsible. You can Bash MPA all you want because the proof is there that he has direct responsibility for the events of last year. but to bash and berate someone because they admitt they are a manager is deplorable.
MarkMyWords
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,900
- 1
Once again....blame anyone that you have PROOF that they screwed up. Bashing a poster because he said he was in Management is irresponsible. (It makes you no better then MPA when he blamed the F/A's and Ramp) I know you think you are better then that!
Viet Nam mode? I know you didn't run and hide over there, did you? Then, why are you running from my question?
How did my posts on this topic blame MY fellow employees? Back up your rant.
this is better than the 700 vs PITMTC rants.. wow and i had honey doo's today....
Thanks for the help, maybe you can get him to come out from under the bunker and fight for himself. I think I just discovered somebody who had no chance of earning a Purple Heart.this is better than the 700 vs PITMTC rants.. wow and i had honey doo's today....
