PFAA To "Affiliate" With TWU

[Wings]

The TWU and AFA see you all as one thing. $$$$$

We left the TWU in 77. TWU didn't understand the dynamics and uniqueness of the job. They resented the idea of women in leadership rolls and saw us as dues dollars and numbers for strength.
's.

TWA, PAA, and AA flight attendants all formed independent unions. They all knew the strength of leading your own destiny.

I can certainly understand your reasoning behind going independent, but the reality of the situation with our independent union PFAA (at this time) is that they are broke and can no longer afford to operate on their own. $4.5 million a year in dues (and 55% of that money went to pay PFAA salaries every year). When we tried to amend the bylaw regarding salaries last year, the executive board campaigned to defeat it and won.

As of March '06, PFAA HAD around $4,000 in cash (I suspect that number is even lower by now) and I won't even tell you how far they are in debt .... it's too embarrassing (but you can go to the DOL website and look at their LM-2 for 2005 to get a glimpse of how dire the situation was even on 12-31-05).

The bottom line here is that the NWA FAs have ONLY two choices at the present time:

AFA or a merger with TWU

That is why I am asking for feedback from your group so that we can find out more information surrounding TWU FA representation.

Thanks for your input!

 

[TWU informer]

Going with the TWU for the money???

That is why the TWU wants you, your dues.

Sounds like a even trade.

You pay dues, they take your dues, and then they sell you out to management.

If it is all about money, then you have already made up your mind and are wasting our time and yours debating this further.

Sure TWU has money, but TWU is also known as the most docile union in the industry. Not a winner for representation.

 

[Wings]

Going with the TWU for the money???

That is why the TWU wants you, your dues.

Sounds like a even trade.

You pay dues, they take your dues, and then they sell you out to management.

If it is all about money, then you have already made up your mind and are wasting our time and yours debating this further.

Sure TWU has money, but TWU is also known as the most docile union in the industry. Not a winner for representation.

TWU informer:

I think you misunderstood my post .... PFAA's motivation in merging IS because they are broke, no doubt (and they are hell-bent on not allowing AFA on NWA property even though almost 60% of the NWA FAs signed cards for a representational election).

I personally had AFA representation for almost eight years at North Central/Republic and have to say it was the best union I have experienced so far (when comparing AFA-IBT-PFAA). AFA led me through three mergers, two rounds of concessionary contracts, and three seniority list mergers, so all in all, I had few, if any complaints.

And I plan on voting for AFA again (if the NMB decides to allow the election between AFA and PFAA). Many NWA FAs want information surrounding TWU and their representation before they choose between AFA or a merger with TWU. I came here because you guys were very helpful last fall when TWU first surfaced at NWA.

And as I said - our only options are AFA OR TWU - which one would you choose? Remaining independent is NOT one of the options any longer since PFAA announced that we will be voting on this merger.

I might add that the only thing that would make the TWU merger a moot point is if the NMB certifies our election with AFA and we begin voting BEFORE PFAA announces the voting deadline for the TWU merger (what a mess, huh?)!!

 

[Bob Owens]

I can certainly understand your reasoning behind going independent, but the reality of the situation with our independent union PFAA (at this time) is that they are broke and can no longer afford to operate on their own. $4.5 million a year in dues (and 55% of that money went to pay PFAA salaries every year). When we tried to amend the bylaw regarding salaries last year, the executive board campaigned to defeat it and won.

As of March '06, PFAA HAD around $4,000 in cash (I suspect that number is even lower by now) and I won't even tell you how far they are in debt .... it's too embarrassing (but you can go to the DOL website and look at their LM-2 for 2005 to get a glimpse of how dire the situation was even on 12-31-05).

The bottom line here is that the NWA FAs have ONLY two choices at the present time:

AFA or a merger with TWU

That is why I am asking for feedback from your group so that we can find out more information surrounding TWU FA representation.

Thanks for your input!

55% is low. In the TWU a much higher percentage goes towards compensation, mainly because the salaries are so high. I think your leadership is selling you out. I have no doubt that your leadership compared what TWU officials get paid to what the AFA pays and thats why they are trying to get you guys into the TWU. Despite the fact that the TWU is a small union they pay their officers and employees very well. For instance if you look at the LM-2 you will see that International Reps, which is the lowest rung on the International, get paid more than the President of the AFA. The President of the TWU makes around double of what the President of the AFA earns.

Once these guys bring you into the TWU their futures are guaranteed, no matter what happens to you. The TWU rewards people who serve their intrests and punishes those who work for their members intrests. So your leaders will be rewarded for selling you and your profession out. Peggy Olstein was a flight attendant, all her coworkers lost their jobs under the TWU but she managed to keep her six figure salary with the TWU. The same goes for John Kerrigan, all his coworkers from Pan Am lost their jobs, even after Kerrigan ushered in industry leading concessions, but his pay continues to climb, Bakala comes from the same place.

Now as far as Jim Little, where do I start? From what I've seen,the man is a pathalogical liar. He hid his management past and lied about his education. He would often cite that his union roots "went all the back to his Grandfather in Scotland" but leave out the fact that he was in AA management, in fact his father in law was also in AA management. Over Jims union career he has served AA management very well, giving AMR the lowest real labor rates in the industry.

So with the TWU PFAA leaders get nice six figure salaries that dwarf what they could ever hope to get at the AFA. Along with the six figure salaries TWU International employees, reps and officers get an extremely generous pension package that has a 5% COLA built into it. Somebody has to pay for these things, so the TWU needs more members, and they will say anything in order to get them.

So for the leadres of the PFAA the TWU is a much more rewarding choice BUT with the TWU PFAA members get:

Jim Little-AMR loyalist, a plant within the union from AMR management who has now become the top man in the TWU.

John Kerrigan-an old tired ex-Pan Am worker who apparently must have stolen so much from the union as Treasurer that despite his advanced age he refusees to retire. Why else would he stay in that position? The man has been a sell out for the last 25 years, usually siding with management in every dispute, including the recent Local 100-MTA strike in NYC.

Mike Bakala- a thug from Pan Am who has no real purpose other than being Kerrigans muscle.

They get a union that tells the membership that the locals are autonomous but then tell the courts the opposite if the Locals actually attempt to act as if the are autonoumous.

They get a union that says that Local officers must be loyal to the International ahead of the members, and if a Local officer claims to work for the members first the International removes them.

They get to fund the high salaries and perks of TWU International officials.

They get industry leading concessions.

They get a union that tells the members to accept whatever the company offers.

If you vote in the TWU you will basically be voting in a company union that is loyal to AMR. Over half the membership of the Air Transport Division of the TWU are from AMR, the parent company of American Airlines and Amercan Eagle, the main competitor of NWA and the airline that helped put NWA in the position its in now. Another thing to consider is that if AMR should take over NWA the flight attendants at AA, who voted out the TWU decades ago, for the same reason you guys voted out the Teamsters, are in an independant union and they would staple you guys under the TWA FAs, most of whom are still laid off.

So the TWU offers you, the member, nothing that the AFA cant offer you. They are not nearly as big as the Teamsters, so they cant offer you the clout of a big union, they represent many different types of workers in many different industries therefore can not specialize in your needs. In fact you will have even less resources to work with since 30% of your dues will now go to the International in order to fund the salaries and perks of the International.Basically the $4.5 million that is now spent representing you will be cut down to $3million with no reduction in dues.However your officers can expect big pay increases.

I agree that you should try and merge,the labor movement needs to consolidate, but make sure that you merge with the right organization, sure the AFA has problems, but they are a union that specializes in meeting the needs of flight attendants, they offer AFL-CIO affiliation and an accountable leadership, unlike the TWU. The TWU specializes in meeting the needs of corporations, like American Airlines.

Your leadership has proven to be untrustworthy by endorsing the TWU, clearly they are looking at the much higher pay rates for TWU officials and their own best intrests and not what is best for you.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

Given a choice between the TWU and the AFA. I would pick the lessor of two evils. AFA would get my vote even though I think the AFA is all bark and no bite. A vote for the TWU is a vote for enslavement. Might as well work for free if you vote in the TWU. Of course, with the way NWA F/A's have acted since August. NWA F/A's might as well be non-union since the remaining NWA unions certainly don't act like unions.

 

[Bill]

Since PFAA is associated with McCormick, isn't their constitution more or less a photocopy of AMFA's? If so, I'd expect all of the pro-AMFA people to be in a bit of a tizzy over this...

That they are affiliated in anyway with AMFA is reason enough to go somewhere else for representation!!!!

Don't you worry FM, the pro-amfa folks won't pass this oppurtunity to bash the TWU. But remember these are the folks who ride the coat tails of those who are maintaining THEIR livelihood. Makes me want to vomit!!!

We welcome the NWA FAs and look forward to working with them. What did the PFAA do for them?? Hell, what is AMFA doing for anybody??????? AMFA lovers don't want to talk about that!!

Going with the TWU for the money???

That is why the TWU wants you, your dues.

Sounds like a even trade.

You pay dues, they take your dues, and then they sell you out to management.

If it is all about money, then you have already made up your mind and are wasting our time and yours debating this further.

Sure TWU has money, but TWU is also known as the most docile union in the industry. Not a winner for representation.

Informer's just mad because he has to do some real work now!!!!

Given a choice between the TWU and the AFA. I would pick the lessor of two evils. AFA would get my vote even though I think the AFA is all bark and no bite. A vote for the TWU is a vote for enslavement. Might as well work for free if you vote in the TWU. Of course, with the way NWA F/A's have acted since August. NWA F/A's might as well be non-union since the remaining NWA unions certainly don't act like unions.

And as for you Priness, you must be a pretty submissive slave then huh???!!!

Booked your tickets for the next constitutional convention??? I still think of the chills I got listenting to you praise the TWU leadership for all of their effort and hard work and professing your undying love and support.............priceless I tell ya' PRICELESS!!!! (or were you just suckin' up???) Enquiring minds want to know!!! :huh:

 

[Hackman]

That they are affiliated in anyway with AMFA is reason enough to go somewhere else for representation!!!!

Don't you worry FM, the pro-amfa folks won't pass this oppurtunity to bash the TWU. But remember these are the folks who ride the coat tails of those who are maintaining THEIR livelihood. Makes me want to vomit!!!

We welcome the NWA FAs and look forward to working with them. What did the PFAA do for them?? Hell, what is AMFA doing for anybody??????? AMFA lovers don't want to talk about that!!

How come you didn't refute any of Bob Owens' points? Can't do it Billdoe?

I'll talk about anything you want 'tard. The PFAA was never "affiliated with AMFA", if you have proof it was, please post it.
Still waiting for that "Industry Leading" TWU contract that doesn't have concessions after concession included. Going on what, 23 years of concessions now?

Still waiting for a vote on any TWU International officer. Even one who spent 6 years in AA management.

Still waiting for the TWU to fight for its M@R group and not cower to every management whim.

Go back to your play sckool lathe and make your wiggits.

"Whit out this here machine there ain't no machinst, whit out this here machinst there ain't no aeroplane, and whit out no aeroplane, we ain't goin to Disney World, and we gots to stay here in Tulsa, dad gum it". :blink:

Hey Princess, did ya get them TWU charges Billdoe filed on ya yet? I can't wait for another TWU Kangaroo Court!!!

 

[Bill]

I'll talk about anything you want 'tard. The PFAA was never "affiliated with AMFA, if you have proof it was, please post it.
Still waiting for that "Industry Leading" TWU contract that doesn't have concessions after concession included. Going on what, 23 years of concessions now?

Still waiting for a vote on any TWU International officer.

Still waiting for the TWU to fight for its M@R group and not cower to every management whim.

Go back to your play sckool lathe and make your wiggits.

"Whit out this here machine there ain't no machinst, whit out this here machinst there ain't no aeroplane, and whit out no aeroplane, we ain't goin to Disney World". :blink:

Hey Princess, did ya get them TWU charges Billdo filed on ya yet? I can't wait for another TWU Kangaroo Court!!!

Easy there big fella!!!!! Takin' up for your girlfriend are ya'?? You're a smoke-blower just like she is. You're pissed off too that you actually have to do some work now.

And please, if McCormick is in the mix it's gotta be AMFA-contaminated!!! But I'll check my paper file for you. Didn't AMFA and the PFAA share the same office or address at one time?? Let me check on that for ya' there Hackman!!

And don't worry, no charges here. She'd just cow-down just like she did in Vegas and that sure wouldn't be any fun!!!!. But you know what they say, "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas"!!! Did she share her story with you Hackman? Amusing really.

 

[TWU informer]

Easy there big fella!!!!! Takin' up for your girlfriend are ya'?? You're a smoke-blower just like she is. You're pissed off too that you actually have to do some work now.

And please, if McCormick is in the mix it's gotta be AMFA-contaminated!!! But I'll check my paper file for you. Didn't AMFA and the PFAA share the same office or address at one time?? Let me check on that for ya' there Hackman!!

And don't worry, no charges here. She'd just cow-down just like she did in Vegas and that sure wouldn't be any fun!!!!. But you know what they say, "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas"!!! Did she share her story with you Hackman? Amusing really.

Don't you have a fuel tank to fill?

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

There you have it Wings. Bill is a typical true TWU kool-aid drinker or should I say gulper. Do you really want to vote in a union with dummies like Bill in it?

 

[eolesen]

The PFAA was never "affiliated with AMFA", if you have proof it was, please post it.

OK. By the way, I said affiliated with McCormick...

From BusinessWeek Online:

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflas..._1141_db008.htm

BusinessWeek Online
Labor's Outside Man
Friday June 4, 2004

Hired-gun contractor Kevin McCormick has never been in a union, yet he runs a major aviation guild. Odd? He thinks it makes perfect sense

Labor leaders typically follow the same arc in their careers, starting with an entry-level job at a unionized shop, rising to a union post at the local and district levels, and then, finally, winning election to the national presidency. Not Kevin McCormick. He operates one of today's fastest-growing unions, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Assn. (AMFA), yet he had never previously even been in a union. Not only that, he works as an outside contractor.

McCormick, 53, fell into organized labor almost by chance. After taking an early-retirement buyout at Polaroid more than 20 years ago, he eventually set up on his own as a financial adviser. One of his clients was a property association whose officers included a Delta Air Line (DAL ) pilot. McCormick began advising the pilot on organizing a new union at Delta. That work, in turn, led him in 1994 to month-to-month consulting for AMFA, then just a tiny guild.

He formally hired on as AMFA's national administrator in 1998. He and his 60-employee company, McCormick Advisory Group, are now midway through their second four-year contract with the union, which is valued at $800,000 a year, based on today's membership numbers.

GROWING MEMBERSHIP. McCormick's heretical background hasn't hurt AMFA, however. Since 1998, it has picked up mechanics at United, Northwest (NWAC ), Southwest (LUV ), and ATA Airlines, swelling its ranks to nearly 20,000 from just 1,500. Soon, it may have more. By mid-June, the National Mediation Board is expected to rule on whether to allow American Airlines' 16,000 mechanics to vote this summer between AMFA and the incumbent Transport Workers Union. AMFA organizers are also distributing petitions at Delta.

As a paid adviser, moreover, McCormick helped install the Professional Flight Attendants Assn. (PFAA) at Northwest Airlines after ousting the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. With McCormick acting as outside consultant, the PFAA is now trying to supplant the Association of Flight Attendants at United.

From Indianapolis, where he's heading AFMA's contract talks with ATA Airlines, and from his consultancy in Laconia, N.H., McCormick talked with BusinessWeek Senior Correspondent Michael Arndt about his role in the American labor movement.

Q: The more-traditional unions in the airline industry don't speak highly of you. In fact, they disparage you as a carpetbagger. What do you say in response?

A: It's because of our success. I know what they're saying about me: "Kevin's only into it because he's going to get a management fee out of it." But quite frankly, when they can no longer defend themselves, they have to lash out and be critical of the other side. It can't be said that Kevin is out there just to line his own pockets. You won't find any marketing material from me on the Internet.

Q: But according to Web sites that your opponents run, you do get paid more the more members you sign up. Do they have it right?

A: Yes, but when the membership rises, we have to increase the size of our staff. Our costs go up. But the cost-per-member declines. It also allows AMFA to know what their administrative costs are going to be because they're set by contract.

Q: How many of your employees work for AMFA?

A: Ten full-time, and then I pull in other staff members when I have a need. AMFA is paying for services they need, not hiring staff and then finding work for them.

Q: In terms of AMFA's cost structure, do members come out ahead vs. what they'd pay at the more traditional unions?

A: Every analysis shows that AMFA enjoys the lowest cost for national administration. We've always tried to be on the conservative side when we measure this. We don't provide legal services, while a lot of unions have in-house legal staffs, so we pull that out, for instance. And AMFA itself has done analysis on what it would cost to do these services in-house and they found that we're no more expensive.

Another thing is, I have a staff that has been involved with AMFA for the last 10 years. They're dedicated to AMFA. They believe in AMFA. That type of loyalty and dedication is something you just can't go out and buy.

Q: You must run into your counterparts from traditional labor. What kind of reception do you get when it's just you guys?

A: Very cordial. Very professional. Their attacks against me are political, to try to defend their position. I understand that. I'm not taking it personally. I've got a job to do. Quite frankly, when people come to us and ask for help, I tell them, "Let it be known, I'm going to be a lightning rod. They're going to come after me." Everybody says, "Fine, let them do it."

Q: What do you say to people when they question whether you should be running a union, given your background?

A: I'm not running a union. I'm managing a union. I've been doing that -- managing things -- for 25 years. Now I have 12 years of labor experience. I think my qualifications speak for themselves.

We're professionals at what we do. We provide the service under the guidance of the national officers. We don't make decisions. Other unions try to put that out there, that we're decisionmakers. We're not. We carry out the direction of the National Executive Council. They're putting too much emphasis on what they think my control is.

Q: In your view, there's not much difference between administering this organization and any other organization?

A: It's an association, and we're professionals at providing services to associations. But we also have a lot of experience in airline labor.

Q: AMFA has picked up most of its members because people are tired of their old unions. They don't feel like they're getting the best contract. Now that you've become the incumbent at many airlines, I'm wondering if that might become a problem for you -- that you'll be the next bums who are thrown out.

A: That's their right. If we're not doing the job for them, then they should throw us out. Are we perfect? No. But at least the membership gets to control the direction of AMFA, not the leadership.

Q: Were you ever in a union?

A: I was in an employee committee when I was at Polaroid in the 1970s.

Q: Is there an overarching philosophy that guides you in your role in the labor movement?

A: The members should give the union the direction. The union is there to represent the members, period. One of the complaints is that Kevin can't be recalled. Well, unions hire outside attorneys and outside accountants. They can be terminated. Officers who don't do their jobs can be recalled. There are also performance clauses in our contract, and we have to perform in order to maintain our contract. If I don't perform, my contract can be terminated.

 

[TWU informer]

DO I get my ballot on James C. Little, Gary Yingst, Linda Dill, and Robert Gless now?

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

Booked your tickets for the next constitutional convention??? I still think of the chills I got listenting to you praise the TWU leadership for all of their effort and hard work and professing your undying love and support.............priceless I tell ya' PRICELESS!!!! (or were you just suckin' up???) Enquiring minds want to know!!! :huh:

What's wrong Bill? I'm just doing what Jim Little did to get appointed president of the TWU. When Jim Little gets his Executive Senior Vice-Presidents slot in AA management, I'll be next in line for succession to the TWU presidency. Of course,I'll have to get rid of Kirk Wells somehow. That idiot keeps hanging around the international thinking he's gonna beat me to the TWU presidency. The only thing he's got on me is that he's a convicted felon and I'm not. The TWU's mob connections have already told me that I'm a shoo-in for the TWU presidency. The Mob said they would help me get some felonies on my record so Kirk won't have a chance.

I'm still waiting for those charges to be filed Bill. What are you waiting for? Since you figured out who I really am, I would really like to see who you are Bill.

Huggs and Kisses, The Princess

 

[Wings]

I just wanted to thank those of you who have taken the time to reply about TWU representation ....

The NMB has certified our election with AFA-CWA and voting begins on that issue June 8, 2006.

The AFL-CIO has set a hearing date for Monday, May 15 to hear arguments regarding the TWU issue - it may turn out that the AFL-CIO will rule that the TWU and PFAA cannot merge due to the certification of a representational election with another AFL-CIO union (AFA-CWA).

Should the AFL-CIO rule that the proposed merger between TWU and PFAA can move forward, we will have another vote on that, as well. PFAA has not set a date for voting on the merger/affiliation with TWU but we expect it to begin around June 13, so voting on these two issues will take place (more or less) within the same timeframe.

Should AFA win the representational election, the TWU merger would become moot.

We have much on our "plates" here at NWA, including the current voting on our TA which ends on June 6.

Thanks again for responding to my inquiries!

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

The AFL-CIO might not let the AFA have an election. The deal the PFAA has with the TWU will mean a guaranteed increase in dues to the AFL-CIO. Any election being held could jepardize that new money. What if enough F/A's write in the Teamsters? Or,less than 50% of the F/A's vote, which would lead to deunionization.