Scott Kirby's CLT Crew News Update - July 29
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
Dog Wonder
Veteran
New York Attitude?
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
- 1,122
And that was a direct result of SWA coming into PHL??? :blink:
Based on some numbers posted by Boeing Boy on another thread, it doesn't have our CASM way above that of SWA. It is a bit higher, but not by a few cents.
US mainline CASM = 10.44 cents (thank goodness for lower oil prices than last year and mark-to-market gains on unsettled hedges)
US Mainline RASM = 9.42 cents
US Express RASM = 17.47 cents
US Composite RASM = 10.76 cents
WN CASM = 9.76 cents
WN RASM = 10.24 cents
Jim
I find it nearly impossible that Southwest Airlines chased out US Airways Mainline in Dayton nor Pittsburgh nor Syracuse.
US Airways past hubs;
Dayton;
The 3 Largest airlines presently are Airtran with a 24% market share, PSA with 12% marketshare and at third is Delta with a 9% market share.
h34r: Southwest airlines currently does not serve DAY. So, obviously Southwest airlines didn't chase out Airways there. So, why exactley do you think Airways shuttered Dayton?-Baltimore;
Southwest has 53% marketshare, Airtran has a 15% market share and United with s 6% marketshare in Baltimore. Obviously, Southwest did win here. Wich I am not disputing and I have clearly been saying.
-Pittsburgh;
US Airways mainline has a 18% marketshakre in pittsburgh, Southwest has 17% of the market and Airtran with 8% of the Pittsburgh market.
2005 Southwest added Pittsburgh and Ft. Myers to it's route map. US Airways started to draw back Pittsburgh in 2001. 4 years prior to Southwest Airlines coming to Pittsburgh. By the time Southwest Airlines came to Pittsburgh, US Airways Mainline was already down to about 60 flights. The writing was already on the wall that Pittsburgh was soon going to get shuttered.
Syracuse;
Jetblue has 20% of the market, US Airways at number 2 with 11% and Atlantic Southeast with 8% of the market. Southwest currently does not Syracuse.
In Summary:
Pittsburgh: Southwest did not chase out US Airways - US airways was already pulling down PIT
Syracuse: Southwest did not chase out Airways. Southwest does not even serve Syracuse.
Dayton: Southwest did not chase out Airways. Southwest does not even serve Syracuse.
Baltimore: southwest did Beat up Airways in Baltimore.
I specifically left out the PSA side of things. I am not sure Southwest Airlines pushed out US Airways's PSA operations, but rather, PSA's operations did not fit the US Air/Piedmont model and US Air found no reason to keep it. That said, this leaves me begging the question on why you think US Airways would just roll over dead in Charlotte for Southwest. Baltimore, as I have been saying, is the only city I can think of the Southwest forced US Airways out of based on the history
The whole LGA issue. I think airways just can't compete in the market and is burning some furniture. And I don't foresee that ever changing. And just because US Airways can't compete in LGA doesn't mean US Airways can't compete in CLT/PHL/DCA.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #65
[This is aimed at wings396's post above - Jim]
Go back and look at US' CASM prior to BK2 and compare it to WN's back then...
I'm not claiming that WN's entry into PHL and subsequent growth there was the sole reason for BK2, but it played a part. One can't discount FL's presence there for a while (bye-bye $1000 PHL-BOS roundtrip fares while they were serving that market) plus other lcc's in various markets from PHL.
Then there was Siegel's "We need lots of 50 seat RJ's" plan...
Jim
Go back and look at US' CASM prior to BK2 and compare it to WN's back then...
I'm not claiming that WN's entry into PHL and subsequent growth there was the sole reason for BK2, but it played a part. One can't discount FL's presence there for a while (bye-bye $1000 PHL-BOS roundtrip fares while they were serving that market) plus other lcc's in various markets from PHL.
Then there was Siegel's "We need lots of 50 seat RJ's" plan...
Jim
Jim, by the way, I love your posts!!! You are always spot on. What do you think will happen to US and the BOS market?? :unsure:
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
- 1,122
Jim, My response was directed more at todays CASM and the other post claiming that SWA would send US packing if they came to CLT due to their CASM being a few cents lower than ours. There is no doubt that SWA is still a very tough competitor, but at this time they are also trying to keep the flood waters from rising above a certain point.
I agree 100% with the above post about SWA running US out of BWI, but not the other cities. I do believe that a US pulldown in BWI was going to take place with or without SWA due to the close range of the PHL Hub. I'm certain that the arrival of SWA expedited the downsizing of BWI, but it would have taken place over time. After the US/PI merger was complete, most of us knew that the DAY & BWI hubs were on the chopping block due to their overlap with PIT & PHL. I have little doubt that this was a huge insentive for US to buy PI in the first place. I feel that they were getting very nervous about PI's growing hubs nextdoor to theirs not to mention the SYR operation in their Upstate NY backyard. Other than the CLT hub, what is really left of the PI system today?
I agree 100% with the above post about SWA running US out of BWI, but not the other cities. I do believe that a US pulldown in BWI was going to take place with or without SWA due to the close range of the PHL Hub. I'm certain that the arrival of SWA expedited the downsizing of BWI, but it would have taken place over time. After the US/PI merger was complete, most of us knew that the DAY & BWI hubs were on the chopping block due to their overlap with PIT & PHL. I have little doubt that this was a huge insentive for US to buy PI in the first place. I feel that they were getting very nervous about PI's growing hubs nextdoor to theirs not to mention the SYR operation in their Upstate NY backyard. Other than the CLT hub, what is really left of the PI system today?
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
- 37
It's not just that their CASM is lower. It's the loss of pricing (gouging) power that US relies upon to extract revenue from CLT. That's the far larger problem.
nycbusdriver
Veteran
That, in a nutshell, is the best explanation I've seen of why USAirways needs to fear SWA. And why SWA has been so successful at cleaning USAir(ways) clock in the past, and continuing.
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
- 1,122
Based on a previous post, it appears that number includes the Express operation.
US use to dominated all those markets
Just wondering why WN hasn't decided to fly into CLT.
Could it be they have better markets out there to place their aircraft?
[especially since their fuel hedging advantage has eroded] ?
How does US's "price gouging" [as you put it], differ from other airlines in their hubs?
for example - Delta/Atlanta----American/Dallas..
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #74
wings396,
I tend to agree with you - WN didn't "run US out of town" in various markets as much as US gave WN the rope to hang US with. From the west coast PSA system to the intra-Florida, US cut back and WN moved in.
On another note, I've never dug around to find out for sure but also believe that the BTS includes express expenses in their CASM calculations as well as express revenue in yield/PRASM. However, that probably gives a better comparison of cost than just comparing mainline US with WN since a significant number of US passengers ride one or more express flights when they fly US.
Jim
I tend to agree with you - WN didn't "run US out of town" in various markets as much as US gave WN the rope to hang US with. From the west coast PSA system to the intra-Florida, US cut back and WN moved in.
On another note, I've never dug around to find out for sure but also believe that the BTS includes express expenses in their CASM calculations as well as express revenue in yield/PRASM. However, that probably gives a better comparison of cost than just comparing mainline US with WN since a significant number of US passengers ride one or more express flights when they fly US.
Jim
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #75
Keeping in mind that my opinion and $5 will get you a Starbucks coffee...
The short answer is that I don't know. If these rumors about getting rid of LGA slots proves true and the Shuttle is affected, that'll affect BOS ops (isn't Shuttle something like half the BOS mainline ops anyway?).
Personally, I can't see any logical reason to give up LGA slots - expecially non-Express. As others have said, if US can't make money at LGA - the "downtown" airport at the biggest market in the country - things are really bad.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that all this hoopla has been over nothing but a LGA terminal swap with DL. At least that makes sense - they get more room to consolidate NW & DL ops while we don't pay for space we don't really need. If that's all that happens, nothing much should change at BOS.
Jim
