Pensions

[Hopeful]

Obviously, I am not a certified POLLSTER, but judging from the number of people who cast a vote on the pension issue shows what people think. Bad enough, we took radical pay and benefit concessions, but it's a sad state when people now have a real fear of the their future in terms of their pensions. The pension underfunding problem isn't specifically anyone's fault. When the market was riding high, the pensions plands were just about self funded due to gains in the market.

But why do companies go screaming to the government when they have to pay their obligations to the plan?
What has been going on is that Labor is the blame of all company woes, with no consequence on the part of the executives who control things.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

In the spirit of "Shared Sacrifice" and "Leading by Example" (to quote Arpey), I would like to have the same bankruptcy-proof pension he and his cronies awarded themselves.

 

[AAmech]

NEWS FLASH! Your pension IS bankrupcy proof! Of course it may not be anywhere near the size of Arpeys, but you still will get it even if the company no longer exsists.

 

[Hopeful]

AAMech: Yes it is bankruptcy proof. But a BK judge can alter the amount paid out to a mininum defined by the PBGC. Just ask the former Eastern Airlines people.

Better yet, just look at the USAir pilots and what happened to their pensions in bankruptcy court!

 

[Wretched Wrench]

NEWS FLASH! Your pension IS bankrupcy proof! Of course it may not be anywhere near the size of Arpeys, but you still will get it even if the company no longer exsists.

AAmech, I hope you are better at your day job than at financial commentary. My pension is not bankruptcy proof. If I am lucky, I will get less than 2/3 of it from the PBGC after a bankruptcy. I say "if I am lucky", because they are woefully underfunded and are running into the red very fast.

Bobby Gless also told me my pension was bankruptcy-proof. He seems to be similarly uninformed. Do you both get your information from the same place? Do you know him? By the way, exactly what is your day job?

But, please, by all means, do keep your "news flashes" coming. If nothing else, there is a certain entertainment value there.

 

[Hopeful]

I think Bobby Gless meant that HIS pension is bankruptcy proof!

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< AAmech------- Something else to think about! The P.B.C.G. happens to be $11 billon in the red! News Flash! There are no garentees in Life!!

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

<_< AAmech------- Something else to think about! The P.B.C.G. happens to be $11 billon in the red! News Flash! There are no garentees in Life!!

"There are no guarentee's in life" ...........................
Except the NE Patriots,in recent Super Bowls !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[Senor Pelon]

I was with TWA for 34 years but was only 51 years old when the PGBC took over our pension plan. At TWA we could retire at age 55 without losing any benefits povided we had a magic number of 90. That is age, plus years of service and you would receive your whole pension. At AA the retirement age is 60 without losing anything. Now if the PGBC takes over the pension plan, all of those below age 60 will lose a substantial amount fron the pension plan. They use a formula that for every year you are below the retirement age at AA, you lose a percentage. Example: At age 55 with TWA I would have received 643. a month for life. Why so small amount? Because our pension was frozen since 1992, when the company filled for BK. Since the PGBC took over in Jan 2001, and I was only 51, all I will get starting this coming Aug is 278. a month. So for all of those who think the pension is guaranteed, and is under 60, wake up. I hope this scenario never happens, but is possible.

 

[MCI transplant]

Yea Bear, the Patriots won! But it wasn't a runaway victory!! I kind of lost interest after the Chiefs droped out. But I don't think the Chiefs could have beat either team! But, you never know, there is always next year!!!!

 

[Garfield1966]

In the spirit of "Shared Sacrifice" and "Leading by Example" (to quote Arpey), I would like to have the same bankruptcy-proof pension he and his cronies awarded themselves.

No problem. If you do not already have your MBA, go to a top 5 business school, get your degree. Then go job hunting for a fortune 500 company preferable one toward the top of the list verses the bottom. Now this may take a while since you have not established your name in the industry a company like Micro soft, or AMR will probably not hire you right off the bat. Once there, then you to will get your golden parachute.

 

[Winglet]

Garfield - I think WW's point was, it's hypocritical for corporate executives to use those words when when they aren't true and they're just used for propaganda purposes. But I suppose they teach that in the "top 5" business schools too.

 

[AAmech]

OK in reply to everyone, the PBGC does guarentee our pension to the amount funded at time of BK. WE DO NOT LOSE OUR PENSION IN BK AS OTHERS ON THIS BOARD HAVE INSINUATED! The bomb throwers on this board want everyone to think upper management will get ALL there pension and the employees get NOTHING! NOT TRUE!! Managements pension is funded at roughly the same level as ours. Yes the PBGC is in the red. So what! So is Social Security. Both are Gov entities and stand to be bailed out in the end.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

OK in reply to everyone, the PBGC does guarentee our pension to the amount funded at time of BK. WE DO NOT LOSE OUR PENSION IN BK AS OTHERS ON THIS BOARD HAVE INSINUATED! The bomb throwers on this board want everyone to think upper management will get ALL there pension and the employees get NOTHING! NOT TRUE!! Managements pension is funded at roughly the same level as ours. Yes the PBGC is in the red. So what! So is Social Security. Both are Gov entities and stand to be bailed out in the end.

AAmech,there are many, many, of us who will have our pensions reduced by a significant amount if AA terminates its pension plan. Go to www.pbgc.gov and compare the maximum with your pension estimate on jetnet. And then, try, just try, to figure out just how one is assured of getting the maximum from the PBGC. Their maximum is a little over half of my Jetnet estimate.

However, AAmech, your pension as a TWU apparatchik, like that of the top 47 AA officers is safe. They have their slush find, and you have your TWU pension. I might add that the pension for TWU functionaries is far more generous than for lowly dues-paying TWU members. For the rest of us, that is not the case. Your observations on this situation remind of Marie Antoinette's "let them eat cake", in response to a report that the working citizens were facing a bread shortage.

So read the PBGC info and educate yourself and stop spreading misinformation.
Just confine your comments to the greatness of AA and the TWU, and leave the serious issues to others.

 

[jimntx]

No problem. If you do not already have your MBA, go to a top 5 business school, get your degree. Then go job hunting for a fortune 500 company preferable one toward the top of the list verses the bottom. Now this may take a while since you have not established your name in the industry a company like Micro soft, or AMR will probably not hire you right off the bat. Once there, then you to will get your golden parachute.

Gar, even that may no longer work. I was reading an article the other day about the fact that an MBA is no longer a guarantee of a job because of this economy. It mentioned an MBA program of some prominence that not one single January graduate had a job offer before graduation--normally in this particular program, at least 75% of the graduates had firm offers prior to graduation.