Pensions!

[will fix for food]

So in other words it dissapeared a different way?Funny but the chart shows a $1.444 billion dollar increase over the prior year for this "new" item. Shouldnt it have been a NA or $1.5 billion, why $1,4 billion? And, where is the balancing entry? Shouldnt something else have decreased by the same amount? The chart does not reflect that we previously were paying Eagle any where near $1.5 billion, instead it looks more like we paid $56 million.


Actually nothing else decreased but if you look at the 10K there is an entry for the collection of all the "regional affiliate" revenues. So effectively American's expenses increased by 1.5 Billion but it's revenues also increased by 1.5 Billion. There is your balancing entry.


But in turn guarantees them and 8% profit, even if those revenues dont cover their expenses right?

Correct. And in fact if you look at the 10K the regional payments slightly exceeded revenues. I wish I could find a breakdown of these numbers by airline. I suspect that Connection is the cause of the discrepancy based on other numbers I have seen.

[post="175542"][/post]​

 

[will fix for food]

15.In 2002, American issued tickets for flights on its AMR Eagle affiliate regional carriers, owned by AMR Eagle Holding Corporation, a subsidiary of AMR. The revenue collected for such tickets was prorated between American and the AMR Eagle carriers based on the segments flown by the respective carriers. In addition, American paid fees, recorded as a reduction in passenger revenues, to AMR Eagle primarily for passengers connecting with American flights. Furthermore, American provided, among other things, communication and reservation services and other services, including yield management and participation in American's frequent flyer program to the AMR Eagle affiliate regional carriers. In consideration for certain services provided, the carriers paid American a service charge, based primarily on passengers boarded.


So Dave, I guess this laid to rest your fears that American was paying for Eagle's services.....Or will we see that thread again in six months?

 

[Bob Owens]

In consideration for certain services provided, the carriers paid American a service charge, based primarily on passengers boarded.[/i][/color]

[post="175716"][/post]​

How much was the service charge?

 

[will fix for food]

How much was the service charge?

[post="175807"][/post]​

Who knows?

But from past experience I doubt it was too far off the "actual" cost, however they arrived at that.

A long time ago when the individual Eaglets all operated on their own certificates but were all still owned by AMR we used to do contract maintenance for each other. Whenever we would work on each others planes we would send each other a bill with the labor hours, parts, etc. Of course it all came from the collective AMR checkbook but they always wanted us to give an accurate accounting of our work so the money could be shuffled accordingly.

I doubt it was much different between Eagle and American.

 

[Bob Owens]

Who knows?

But from past experience I doubt it was too far off the "actual" cost, however they arrived at that.

A long time ago when the individual Eaglets all operated on their own certificates but were all still owned by AMR we used to do contract maintenance for each other. Whenever we would work on each others planes we would send each other a bill with the labor hours, parts, etc. Of course it all came from the collective AMR checkbook but they always wanted us to give an accurate accounting of our work so the money could be shuffled accordingly.

I doubt it was much different between Eagle and American.

[post="175821"][/post]​

Perhaps, but since labor costs are much higher at AA compared to Eagle and we were targeted for the cuts there would be an incentive to hide money over at EAGLE so they could claim poverty at AA.

How long is the term of your current contract?

 

[Rusty]

It appears to me that the company wrote off 1.5 billion into regional capacity agreements to show they had no cash and bankruptcy was imminent (there is no way they actually increased capacity by 1500 %). As a matter of fact they had their lawyers waiting at the court-house door with cell phones in hand on the word to file. The twu had hired the same firm that AA had to confirm the numbers and the deception game was on. The twu advocates concessions and the company pours on the pressure, meanwhile the Flight Attendance just say "no". The company has back up plans and we find there is no-one at the courthouse after all. Days after the vote we find executives have stuffed money in their coffers. Carty says he made a mistake in the timing of the disclosure and resigns. The company/twu throw some BS (section-6 openers) at the membership to satisfy the thirst for blood, then Little signs off on the contract with his infamous 'Without Further Ratification" Vote. The pilots file a grievance for the additional regional capacity which has ironically swelled 1500% while AA is at reduced capacity and wins a 25 million award (in addition to the approximately 25 million forgiven in the concession package). Some sharp Flight Attendants sue the company for the voting scheme and toss out their President. Meanwhile twu Local and International execs get hefty raises. At the end of 2003 the capacity purchase agreement is realized back into cash and now, here we are!!!

will fix for food, we are all in this together in our craft and class and personally I would like to see regional mechanics pay raised to equal that of the majors. I am not sure why you seem to be upset but take a look, prior to the scam. AA had too much cash to file, where did it go? The 10k filing was delayed twice and the SEC would have no more delays. The show had to go on immediately because of the filing and then almost came unraveled. The 1.5 billion, the executive stash money, and who knows where else money was stuffed, would have sustained the airline at least another year burning up the cash at 5 million a day. I don't think a bankruptcy judge would have been so quick to take away labors money if the airline had 4 to 5 billion in cash, do you? By the way when do you suppose management is going to sacrifice their fair share, for that matter, how about the twu international officers, when are they even going to see one red cent of a cut?

Why didn't twu not do the same thing as the pilots and grieve the capacity?

 

[Decision 2004]

Why didn't twu not do the same thing as the pilots and grieve the capacity?

[post="175952"][/post]​

Uh, because "THEY CAN DO THAT BROTHER"!

 

[will fix for food]

Perhaps, but since labor costs are much higher at AA compared to Eagle and we were targeted for the cuts there would be an incentive to hide money over at EAGLE so they could claim poverty at AA.


I would be surprised if they decided to hide money at Eagle as every single unionized work group is in contract negotiations right now. I would think they would want to plead poverty here also. However they may be relying on Bowler's continual threats of American cancelling our code share agreement if we become too expensive (i.e. get a raise) to cow us into accepting nothing.

How long is the term of your current contract?

The contract we are currently working under was 5 years ammendable 4/03. There is now a TA on the table that is a 3 year contract from DOS.

[post="175931"][/post]​

 

[AMFAMAN]

Retro or no retro pay on that deal????

 

[will fix for food]

It appears to me that the company wrote off 1.5 billion into regional capacity agreements to show they had no cash and bankruptcy was imminent.........


Remember that there was also a 1.5 Billion credit in the revenues column. The net loss from the new FPD system was 31 million and was, I'm guessing, because of Connection. Connection and Eagle are lumped together in the 10K.

BTW, If anyone voted yes or no on a concession package by looking solely at the expenses column and not at the revenues column, then......well.....

The pilots file a grievance for the additional regional capacity which has ironically swelled 1500%........

I would double check that. I thought it had to do with the Connection reverse code share scam which indeed exceeded the ASM cap but I don't think that it was anywhere near 1500%.


will fix for food, we are all in this together in our craft and class and personally I would like to see regional mechanics pay raised to equal that of the majors. I am not sure why you seem to be upset but take a look, prior to the scam. AA had too much cash to file, where did it go? The 10k filing was delayed twice and the SEC would have no more delays. The show had to go on immediately because of the filing and then almost came unraveled. The 1.5 billion, the executive stash money, and who knows where else money was stuffed, would have sustained the airline at least another year burning up the cash at 5 million a day. I don't think a bankruptcy judge would have been so quick to take away labors money if the airline had 4 to 5 billion in cash, do you? By the way when do you suppose management is going to sacrifice their fair share, for that matter, how about the twu international officers, when are they even going to see one red cent of a cut?


Sure I am a little irritated but I am more baffled by the finger pointing than anything. I mean I love a good conspiracy as much as the next guy but come on....

At various times I've read:

1. Eagle is profitable and American is losing money because American pays Eagle executive's salaries (twice).
2. The TWU took money from American employees to pay Eagle employees.
3. American is hiding money in Eagle to justify giving A/A employees paycuts.

It has all been BS and if you spent any amount of time at Eagle at all you would realize that.

Why didn't twu not do the same thing as the pilots and grieve the capacity?

Are you waiting for the international to file one? Why don't you do it yourself?

 

[will fix for food]

Retro or no retro pay on that deal????

[post="175983"][/post]​

No retro.....here is a summary of the changes........

http://local576.twuatd.org/default.asp?id=32&mnu=32


I expect it to fail miserably.

 

[AMFAMAN]

No retro.....here is a summary of the changes........

http://local576.twuatd.org/default.asp?id=32&mnu=32
I expect it to fail miserably.

[post="175995"][/post]​

Thanks for the info....after reading it, I wish I never saw it. Moving Scope into Mangement rights, not good, especially with an AMR management team.

Looks like the decent money for the signing bonus goes to the minority. I don't understand a sliding scale on a signing bonus, divide and conquer is back.


New - In the case of AE integrating with any AMR affiliate, parties will meet to determine seniority integration. If satisfactory agreement between parties cannot be reached in regard to seniority the Company will agree to binding arbitration.

What good is this, how about requiring a dovetail to protect yourself. And why does the company get involved, shouldn't be between the unions.

This is be a BIG FAT NO VOTE. The company is setting you guys up to take on the LCC's, they should start paying you like them. SWA is offering over $40, Spirit pays in the mid $30's.

BTW...Do you guys get a pension or 401K, if yes on the pension, do you know the formular?

 

[UAL_TECH]

Next?

Continental isn't funding its pension plan this year

Take Care,
B) UT

 

[Decision 2004]

How many RJ's are currently on order?

How many of them were on order at the time of the AA "dire" financial times?

How many cities are TWU members at AA being replaced or RIF'd due to Eagle RJ implementation?

Where is that Jim Little "Shared Sacrifice" response?

 

[Buck]

Has anyone heard the talk about MCI possibly being a new AE maintenance base, if the do not obtain third party maintenance by January 2006?