Pensions!

[High Speed Steel]

Again I see the amfa faithful are trying to discredit the Scope of the TWU/AA agreement. So may I suggest a little experiment with a phrase commonly used when filling out grievances for our members which includes the outsourcing of work.

This is a violation of the TWU/AA labor agreement...!!!!

Result:
1. Strong statement which has won many arguments for the TWU in the arbitration process and has returned much of our work back in house over the years.

Now for part 2 of this experiment. Shall we try the same basic statement with the amfa/Northwest agreement..?

This is a violation of the amfa/Northwest labor agreement..!!!!

Result:
1. HUH????????


---------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Rusty]

Also why didn't the twu file a grievance for the regional ASM's??? Our contract is explicit in this area. The pilots won their grievance for I think around 25 million from the same.

View attachment 1880

 

[FWAAA]

Page 24.

1.444 billion more than the 106 million in 2002.

SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION FORM 10-K

View attachment 1879

[post="175508"][/post]​

Finally, someone responds with some facts.

So how does the conversion (effective 1/01/03) of the regional payment system from an allocation to a "fee for departure" harm the mechanics or any other employees? Are you alleging that the $1.5 billion disappeared into Eagle at your expense? Previously, Eagle was paid, just not the same way.

Now, of course, AA keeps all the revenue from all Eagle flights rather than allocating it between the regionals the way it used to.

From the Q1 2003 AA 10-Q, pages 10 &11:

15.In 2002, American issued tickets for flights on its AMR Eagle affiliate regional carriers, owned by AMR Eagle Holding Corporation, a subsidiary of AMR. The revenue collected for such tickets was prorated between American and the AMR Eagle carriers based on the segments flown by the respective carriers. In addition, American paid fees, recorded as a reduction in passenger revenues, to AMR Eagle primarily for passengers connecting with American flights. Furthermore, American provided, among other things, communication and reservation services and other services, including yield management and participation in American's frequent flyer program to the AMR Eagle affiliate regional carriers. In consideration for certain services provided, the carriers paid American a service charge, based primarily on passengers boarded.


-10-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Effective January 2003, American Airlines and AMR Eagle implemented a preliminary "Fee Per Departure" agreement. Under this agreement, American pays Eagle a fixed fee per block hour and departure to operate regional aircraft. The block hour and departure fees are designed to cover AMR Eagle's fully allocated costs. The Company is in the process of implementing a definitive agreement which will also include a margin. Assumptions for highly volatile or uncontrollable costs such as fuel, landing fees, and aircraft ownership are trued up to actual values on a pass through basis. In consideration for these payments, American retains all passenger and other revenues resulting from the Eagle operation. This agreement will be renewed annually on January 1, without action by either party, until either party gives written notice of termination to the other party.

http://www.shareholder.com/aa/EdgarDetail....03-16&SID=03-00

So I assume that the complaint about this number is that it represents money that AMR is "hiding" in Eagle at your expense. Close?

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

So FWAA are you gonna try and baffle us with your total B.S. that you spew on this website? You can try, but we(rank+file employees) have known for a long time that AA upper management,finance,and marketing are nothing but a bunch of scammers. Here's an example back in the early 90's,during the days of the "ideas in action program", supposedly our idea's saved $50 million and AA was use that $50 million to buy a 757,since that is what AA said they were paying for 757's at that time. Well I saw the invoice for that particular airplane and it only cost AA only $25 million. I wonder where the other $25 million went? I'll bet it wasn't used to buy another 757!

 

[Bob Owens]

Right about what? Haven't seen him post anything yet to support his claim...!!!
-------------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

[post="175513"][/post]​

Why should it matter if I post it? If someone else posts it what difference does it make?

I already told you I dont know how to post images.

You still have not said that what I claimed is untrue, you only say that I did not present "proof". Why is that?

 

[Bob Owens]

FWAAA,Sep 3 2004, 02:17 AM]
Finally, someone responds with some facts.

So how does the conversion (effective 1/01/03) of the regional payment system from an allocation to a "fee for departure" harm the mechanics or any other employees? Are you alleging that the $1.5 billion disappeared into Eagle at your expense? Previously, Eagle was paid, just not the same way.

So in other words it dissapeared a different way?Funny but the chart shows a $1.444 billion dollar increase over the prior year for this "new" item. Shouldnt it have been a NA or $1.5 billion, why $1,4 billion? And, where is the balancing entry? Shouldnt something else have decreased by the same amount? The chart does not reflect that we previously were paying Eagle any where near $1.5 billion, instead it looks more like we paid $56 million.

Now, of course, AA keeps all the revenue from all Eagle flights rather than allocating it between the regionals the way it used to.

But in turn guarantees them and 8% profit, even if those revenues dont cover their expenses right?

 

[Mark Inman]

FWAAA you are correct. AA did have an agreement to pay AE in 2001 and AA payed out 60 million for regionals in 2001. In 2002 they add Chitaqua as a regional carrier and there payout to regionals increased to 105 million. In 2003 AA signed the capacity purchase agreement which added Trans State as a regional carrier and there payout in Jan of 2003 was 1.55 billion. AE has increased capacity by 46% in the last 2 years while AA's capacity is at or below 2001 levels. At the time AA signed the capacity purchase agreement in Jan 2003 AA's ASMs were at a 9% reduced capacity. American Airlines did not use force majeure to violate this language as did North west. AA just did it and TWscrew did nothing to stop it. The very least TWscrew could have done was realized a cost savings for it. You need to just keep your head in the sand and quit making uneducated, rude comments to people who are using there own time and money to research these things. You might try and see if you can get your local President to file a grievance for us on this issue. I have asked three local 514 officers to help with this and have had no response. I also asked Jim Little about it in person and he said

Why haven’t you grieved it brother? If you have more questions on this subject fill free to contact me at 5-A avionics in TUL.

 

[FWAAA]

So FWAA are you gonna try and baffle us with your total B.S. that you spew on this website? You can try, but we(rank+file employees) have known for a long time that AA upper management,finance,and marketing are nothing but a bunch of scammers. Here's an example back in the early 90's,during the days of the "ideas in action program", supposedly our idea's saved $50 million and AA was use that $50 million to buy a 757,since that is what AA said they were paying for 757's at that time. Well I saw the invoice for that particular airplane and it only cost AA only $25 million. I wonder where the other $25 million went? I'll bet it wasn't used to buy another 757!

[post="175533"][/post]​

I am sincerely sorry that you are so easily baffled.

As to that 757 - you are one sharp tack; did you happen to get the invoice from Rolls for the RB211s? Last I checked, those things are expensive. B)

And you can be certain that AA never got a new 757 from Boeing (with engines) for only $25 million.

The excess? (What little there was.) Bonuses for the executives.

 

[Mark Inman]

The Company has capacity purchase agreements with two regional airlines, Chautauqua Airlines, Inc. (Chautauqua) and Trans States Airlines, Inc. (collectively the American Connection carriers) to provide Embraer EMB-140/145 regional jet services to certain markets under the brand “American Connectionâ€￾. Under these arrangements, the Company pays the American Connection carriers a fixed fee per block hour to operate the aircraft. The block hour fees are designed to cover the American Connection carriers’ fully allocated costs. Assumptions for highly volatile costs such as fuel, landing fees, insurance, and aircraft ownership are trued up to actual values on a pass through basis. In addition to covering the cost of operations, the Company also pays a designed profit margin to the American Connection carriers. In consideration for these payments, the Company retains all passenger and other revenues resulting from the operation of the American Connection regional jets. Minimum payments under the contracts are $95 million in 2004, $69 million in 2005, $70 million in 2006, $71 million in 2007 and $20 million in 2008. However, based on expected utilization, the Company expects to make payments of $162 million in 2004, $164 million in 2005, $166 million in 2006, $168 million in 2007, $170 million in 2008 and $854 million in 2009 and beyond. In addition, if the Company terminates the Chautauqua contract without cause, Chautauqua has the right to put its Embraer aircraft to the Company. If this were to happen, the Company would take possession of the aircraft and become liable for lease obligations totaling approximately $21 million per year with lease expirations in 2018 and 2019.
Does this sound like good use of American Airlines revenue or do you think we should have hedged some fuel for 2004? Where does our Union draw the line. The Board has determined that the single craft or class of Airline Mechanics, Ground Service, Plant Maintenance, and Fleet Service Personnel is no longer a proper craft or class at either American or TWA-LLC. The proper crafts or classes are Mechanics and Related Employees, and Fleet Service Employees. 29 NMB 240, 251 NO VOTE :angry: NO PEACE!!!!

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

FWAAA :blink: , since you have said that you don't work for AMR or AA how can you know anything factual about AA or AMR? Here another one for you. I also saw several of the invoices for the 767's that AA "bought" in early 90's. AA was claiming it cost 90-100 million per 767, the invoices I saw said $60 million.

Oh by the way,I heard your job is being outsourced. Seems they found unskilled people like you that will work for $5.00/hr. I guess they got tired of you spending all of your time at work on this website. Your right FWAAA I am a sharp tack. I'm very good at using my sharp tacks on dummys like you. Check the photo below.

 

[FWAAA]

Correct. AA will pay something like $162 million to non-AMR Eagle affilliates operating the AX flights. Anyone know how much revenue AA will get for these flights? Could be they are profitable. Who knows?

The rest of the $1.6 billion or so will be paid to AMR Eagle, so the money stays in the family. Of course AE has grown while AA has stagnated. That's been the plan for several years now, so you can't claim to be surprised about it now. Same thing at every other legacy airline. RJ fleets are growing while mainline fleets are slowly shrinking. Just because AA once operated almost 900 mainline airplanes doesn't mean it always would.

I know, AA only diminished itself and grew Eagle to screw labor. Everything they do at HQ is designed with one goal in mind: To Screw Labor. Labor-friendly ideas are summarily tossed out, and those that screw labor are rewarded with bonuses.

 

[FWAAA]

FWAAA :blink: , since you have said that you don't work for AMR or AA how can you know anything factual about AA or AMR? Here another one for you. I also saw several of the invoices for the 767's that AA "bought" in early 90's. AA was claiming it cost 90-100 million per 767, the invoices I saw said $60 million.

Oh by the way,I heard your job is being outsourced. Seems they found unskilled people like you that will work for $5.00/hr. I guess they got tired of you spending all of your time at work on this website. Your right FWAAA I am a sharp tack. I'm very good at using my sharp tacks on dummys like you. Check the photo below.

[post="175569"][/post]​

No wonder you're such a failure at organizing your fellow workers to switch labor unions: sometimes you aren't very polite.

Was it your job to scrape the window stickers off the new planes? Is that where you "saw" all these invoices?

Sounds like AA should have bought more of those $25 million 757s rather than the $60 million 767s; you are right - management does make dumb decisions.

 

[AMFAMAN]

I know, AA only diminished itself and grew Eagle to screw labor. Everything they do at HQ is designed with one goal in mind: To Screw Labor. Labor-friendly ideas are summarily tossed out, and those that screw labor are rewarded with bonuses.

[post="175570"][/post]​

Wow you have finally spoken the truth, thank you.

 

[Bob Owens]

Correct. AA will pay something like $162 million to non-AMR Eagle affilliates operating the AX flights. Anyone know how much revenue AA will get for these flights? Could be they are profitable. Who knows?

The rest of the $1.6 billion or so will be paid to AMR Eagle, so the money stays in the family. Of course AE has grown while AA has stagnated. That's been the plan for several years now, so you can't claim to be surprised about it now. Same thing at every other legacy airline. RJ fleets are growing while mainline fleets are slowly shrinking. Just because AA once operated almost 900 mainline airplanes doesn't mean it always would.

I know, AA only diminished itself and grew Eagle to screw labor. Everything they do at HQ is designed with one goal in mind: To Screw Labor. Labor-friendly ideas are summarily tossed out, and those that screw labor are rewarded with bonuses.

[post="175570"][/post]​

The BS didnt work so now you try sarcastic condescension, stick to the BS.

The goal is to maximize profits so they can attempt to justify and recieve outrageous compensation for themselves. Screwing over labor is simply the easiest means to achieve those goals.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

fwaa,

"I know, AA only diminished itself and grew Eagle to screw labor. Everything they do at HQ is designed with one goal in mind: To Screw Labor. Labor-friendly ideas are summarily tossed out, and those that screw labor are rewarded with bonuses."

Now you understand AA AND the twu.