Parker's take on the old AA and Labor

[OldGuy@AA]

Ramp & Stores got a "MUCH' better contract than the M&R,
IMHO, the twu did it on purpose as they knew the M&R are gutless.
The iam/twu alliance will continue to de-nut  what little tenacity the M&R has (if any).
Don't attempt to beat up Ramp and Stores for the #### you guys voted for.
You guys need to get a set instead of deflecting blame,
 
B) xUT

Not beating up ramp and stores.  The TWU is the one with the black eye.  But I have never seen nor heard anyone from ramp or stores claim that the AMTs got screwed or call for the TWU to reinstate the benefits that we used to have and they still have.  I am willing to bet that if the shoe were on the other foot that ramp and stores would be screaming bloody murder.  Let's not forget it was the ramp guys who insisted on lump sum payments instead of raises so we all got the same money.  This was a big reason we wanted separate negotiations.  Because of this the TWU punishes us by giving away our benefits and allowing stores and fleet to keep them.  It is a fact that AA AMTs are the lowest paid in the industry.  AA fleet and stores are not the lowest paid and actually compare favorably to the other airlines.  So why did the TWU figure we had to lose a week of vacation on top of everything else?  And I did not vote for any of this crap.  I will vote for AMFA though.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

^^ This. ^^ 
 

Having a few AMT's doesn't hurt, but you've got to have some professional negotiators at the table as well. I still maintain that the reason the TWU has been fleeced all these years is because they keep sending laymen to the negotiating table when the other side is staffed by MBA's and finance guys.

When you're emotionally and financially attached to the contract, you don't always make the best decisions. Sometimes you settle for something that sounds good for the QOL, but winds up costing you more in the long run e.g. giving up profit sharing...

Under AMFA we will have professional negotiators on our team.  Our shysters vs. their shysters.

 

[eolesen]

Under AMFA we will have professional negotiators on our team.  Our shysters vs. their shysters.

Good.

Contrary to what some of the newbies on the forum might want to believe, I've always supported you guys having either AMFA or AMP and breaking from the rest of the unlicensed TWU workers. That dates back to the days over on the PlaneBusiness forums.

 

[700UW]

AMFA uses its own members just like every other union, they dont have professional negotiators.

 

[eolesen]

Regardless, I'd assume they allow the local to maintain the option of defining who makes up their negotiating committee.

Seems to me that AMFA understands and applies the concept that the international is there to serve the locals, and not the other way around like you see with the "we'll represent anyone willing to pay dues" unions...

 

[700UW]

It isnt just one local its system-wide.

 

[Kev3188]

A lot of people object to the idea of pros at the table, thinking that it takes away from the concept of "of the people, for the people." I disagree. what I would like to see is an elected committee there sort of directing (for lack of a better term) a team of pros. What the masses want is still conveyed, but delivered much more effectively. If/when we see representation at DL, I will also push for open sessions. AMFA does this well, but IMO doesn't carry it far enough. No lotteries to attend, just an open invite.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

AMFA uses its own members just like every other union, they dont have professional negotiators.

Incorrect. The AMFA does use AMT's as negotiators, however they also have hired legal and financial professionals during negotiations.

"Contract Negotiations:

"AMFA hires professionals at the bargaining table to present and utilize their particular expertise. For example, in economic areas AMFA hires a financial expert; in the pension and welfare areas we hire a pension actuary. The contract language is reviewed by AMFA's legal counsel before presenting it to the company. During the course of negotiations, AMFA's legal counsel is present at the table or available by phone, fax, or email depending upon the need. Members have the ability to observe negotiations, which educates the membership and furthers understanding of what it takes to negotiate a contract."

http://www.amfanational.org/index.cfm?zone=/unionactive/view_page.cfm&page=About20AMFA

 

[WorldTraveler]

A lot of people object to the idea of pros at the table, thinking that it takes away from the concept of "of the people, for the people." I disagree. what I would like to see is an elected committee there sort of directing (for lack of a better term) a team of pros. What the masses want is still conveyed, but delivered much more effectively. If/when we see representation at DL, I will also push for open sessions. AMFA does this well, but IMO doesn't carry it far enough. No lotteries to attend, just an open invite.

for the sole reason that negotiating in public on one side leaves that side very vulnerable.

mgmt at any company will keep its position very close to the vest.

 

[700UW]

The IAM uses lawyers and other professionals, most unions do.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

The IAM uses lawyers and other professionals, most unions do.

Most industrial Unions do for the benefit of the International.!!!

 

[Kev3188]

for the sole reason that negotiating in public on one side leaves that side very vulnerable.

mgmt at any company will keep its position very close to the vest.

Maybe, but once the "openers" are out, that's moot.

At any rate, I'm not sure what you are trying to say here? I'm advocating that as many people as possible have a chance to see what happens at the table, while it's happening.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm saying that negotiations are a fluid process... if the company knows that they will have an audience on the other side of the table, why would they not do all possible to put a wedge within labor? No negotiating position is ever going to fully reflect the desires of every person represented and recent history in the airline history shows that airline mgmts have done a very good job of giving what one group wants at the expense of someone else. ie... the UA ramp contract, the constant TWU division between workgroups at AA etc.

I agree theoretically with what you are saying... I just don't see evidence that it has been successfully executed and lots of reasons to show why it has not.

 

[1AA]

Some of AMFA's locals. I am sure others will add more to the list.
 
Local 1
Local 3
Local 4
Local 6
Local 11
Local 12
 
American Airlines TWU Aircraft Maintenance  Line local 591,
gee what a concept to represent everyones needs geographically.

 

[Kev3188]

I'm saying that negotiations are a fluid process... if the company knows that they will have an audience on the other side of the table, why would they not do all possible to put a wedge within labor?

Maybe, but that also assumes a company has zero interest in good faith bargaining.

 

I agree theoretically with what you are saying... I just don't see evidence that it has been successfully executed and lots of reasons to show why it has not.

Actually, you shouldn't be able to see any evidence either way, since AFAIK what I'm advocating for has never occurred in this industry.