Parker set to make Important Announcement on 9 June 2015

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

I have never argued about total revenue.

I have talked about INTERNATIONAL REVENUE. Delta is the largest international carrier at LAX.

 
What WT is having a problem stating is that DL, is #3 carrier at LAX.  Ofcourse being the #3 carrier, according to the theory preacher ad nauseam here:  the #3 carrier is doomed for failure and destined to at best struggle as a niche player in a market.
 
But I do love how he's come up with a new metric to try to validate the DL rules the world narrative.

 

[WorldTraveler]

the only problem that exists is that you are trying to argue over a point that I have never made... I know DL is the #3 carrier in total size at LAX. What you can't admit is that DL is the largest int'l carrier because DL has used its space to generate the most revenue per gate - proving that DL is smart enough to maximize revenue using its LAX assets and become the largest int'l carrier at the same time.

DL has no 50 seat flying at LAX or SEA and is upgrading RJ flying to mainline, adding even more seats.

DL has a seats/dept at LAX almost identical to WN which doesn't even fly RJs.

I haven't said DL rules the world... that is your warped interpretation.

I have said that DL is focusing on what matters which means the most high seats in the largest revenue markets. DL could care less about 50 seat feed to a bunch of small cities in California - and AA and UA are realizing that is the way to go as well.

AA can and should crow about what the new LAX int'l routes do to increase its portfolio but dn't be surprise when DL manages to squeeze one or two more longhaul int'l flights into their schedule and also add more seats thru upgraded aircraft.

given that LAX is a limited size airport, yields will continue to increase for all carriers and all growth has a higher return on investment than in other cities and also compared to what existed in the past.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

So you went from international revenue to RJs.
Nice deflection.

 

[WorldTraveler]

You do realize that the INTERNET allows passengers of all kinds to post comments and seat maps of every aircraft for every airline?

seat guru is a great site and pretty accurate.

AA is moving to 10 abreast in standard coach on its 777s while DL and UA and Virgin all have 9 abreast as the max.

Fro those who buy standard coach, one less seat matters on a 14 hour plus flight.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

You do realize that the INTERNET allows passengers of all kinds to post comments and seat maps of every aircraft for every airline?
 

Yes I do.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Except that didn't come from seat guru and isn't even accurate.

There is no assigned section for any standard coach fare basis.

and regardless of how DL is assigning seats or not, DL's domestic RASM appears to be outperforming AA and WN's who are duking it out at each other's expense in the domestic market. UA is a little tougher to call but DL has outperformed UA in the domestic market for quite some time.

and specific to int'l, with the imminent retirement of the 744s, DL will have the widest seats on its int'l fleet or the US int'l carriers. AA is moving in the opposite direction.

As we have heard here, coach passengers just shop for the lowest price so they don't care about space or amenities.

the next decade in the int'l market will be very telling to see whether DL's more space or AA"s less space strategy is more profitable.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Please, try to keep up (that is if you have the mental horsepower to grasp the issue at hand).
 
The pic I posted above was not from SeatGuru, but from the internet. 
You do realize that you asked me if I realized that the INTERNET allows people to post comments, etc.
 
So I posted a pic form the INTERNET where DL's .....  cough cough ..... award winning economy products were discussed.
 

You do realize that the INTERNET allows passengers of all kinds to post comments and seat maps of every aircraft for every airline?
 

 

Except that didn't come from seat guru and isn't even accurate.

 
Spin as much as you want, this is accurate:  http://thecooperreview.com/deltas-new-airplane-seating-chart/
And this too:  http://crankyflier.com/2014/12/15/deltas-basic-economy-is-going-to-generate-a-ton-of-complaints-leave-money-table/
 

 
Spin away!

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

and regardless of how DL is assigning seats or not, DL's domestic RASM appears to be outperforming AA and WN's

 
Wait!  You went from touting the awesomeness of DL's international revenue at LAX, to bragging about its size of RJs used at LAX (and on the west coast, where face it, DL is an afterthought) to now discussing  DL domestic RASM?
 
Oh, and all of this on the AA board in a thread about AA's LAX-SYD flight!
 
 

and specific to int'l, with the imminent retirement of the 744s, DL will have the widest seats on its int'l fleet or the US int'l carriers.

I love the double qualifier used here to illustrate DL grandeur.

Reality is going to be a b!tch for you.
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

reality is being able to honestly and unemotionally talk about basic facts in the industry.

I don't post emotional pictures of people putting fists thru computers or psychedelic images because it doesn't change the facts....

I have NEVER said that DL was the largest airline at LAX or denied that AA was.

I have said that LAX-SYD on AA metal is a great move for AA and the transfer of LAX-MEX from AS and the addition of one more flight to what AS is operating will help broaden AA's LAX int'l network.

but the facts ARE that DL is the largest int'l carrier at LAX. AA is adding LAX-SYD while DL is adding LAX-PVG in terms of long haul capacity. DL will add LAX-MEX. DL might add more LAX flying as well.

I don't think there is any doubt that LAX is a highly competitive market and that AA will remain the largest airline at LAX OVERALL driven by its larger domestic operation.

But DL continues to defy internet pundits who argue that DL is out of room. They could add several more int'l flights that mirror the times of its LAX-PVG flight because those flights operate in the slowest period of the day at LAX but connect well with other existing flights.

further, DL is using larger aircraft across the board. DL's average aircraft size per flight is 15-20 seats higher than UA and AA's. that's not emotion but rather fact.

and DL's numbers continue to go up, esp. if the planned Ejet order takes place where it is rumored they will be used on the west coast - where range is more important - and leave the shorter range 717s on the east coast.

AA is growing. I have never said that is a bad thing. Quite the contrary.

but you and others can't grasp that the airline industry is highly competitive and other carriers including DL are just as committed to growing their position in key west coast markets as AA is.

And despite what you and other pundits believe, DL is not out of options to do so and is not losing ground but in fact growing its passenger and revenue share relative ot other carriers.

and as much as you want to believe otherwise, AA and DL can both succeed at the expense of other carriers and because LAX will become a more and more valuable airport as space runs out for all carriers and as yields go up.

Angelinos will pay more and more for air transportation due to their objection to growing infrastructure. Airlines like AA and DL will cash in on that and there are few alternatives for air travel given that LA is so far from so many other parts of the country and world and LA is a very global city.

 

[commavia]

It bears repeating, though - one carrier appears more capable of "cashing in" on constrained infrastructure at LAX going forward, and that's the carrier that controls or nearly-controls ~2x the number of gates of any of their largest competitors at the airport.

 

[Phoenix]

Can someone alert the department store manager that a kid is wandering alone (you might say "traveling"). A PA needs to be made to alert his mother to come rescue her child. Though he does deserve it, he is being spanked by strangers.

 

[WorldTraveler]

It bears repeating, though - one carrier appears more capable of "cashing in" on constrained infrastructure at LAX going forward, and that's the carrier that controls or nearly-controls ~2x the number of gates of any of their largest competitors at the airport.

No, quite frankly, they don't.

because there is not the limit on the ability of other carriers to grow that you think there is.

Just because AA has a number of gates in the pipeline doesn't mean there aren't ways for other carriers to grow.

And as much as you want to believe otherwise, it will be years before 9 or 10 of those gates are usable for mainline flights. Meanwhile, DL is positioned to move from being the only large RJ and mainline airline of the big 3 to being all mainline - 100 seats or larger.

and all of this size that you think will give AA an advantage comes from service to a number of 2nd and 3rd tier cities that AA serves and other carriers including DL do not see as necessary. Those cities do not have large amounts of O&D to LAX and local O&D traffic IS the best way to utilize scare assets.

You haven't demonstrated that you have understood the concept of O&D traffic and not just seats in the market when we have talked about Tokyo or New York so it is doubtful you will understand it WRT LAX but other carriers are simply much more focused on using their assets for higher yielding LAX O&D traffic than AA which has a need to have a hub on the west coast.

Other carriers have other hubs which serve the non-LAX local market and do not need to funnel connecting traffic thru LAX.

That is why the big 3 have never been closer in local O&D share and revenue from LAX. and will continue to be as DL and UA focus on adding what needs to be added to maintain and grow their share in the local LAX market.

further, the addition of LAX-SYD on AA aircraft is the lowest risk int'l expansion that AA could have done. It is a route being added in a JV where QF is already the dominant carrier and the number of seats in the local LAX-SYD market is not growing much if at all since AA's 77Ws have such low seat densities and QF is reducing their own service in order to fund the SFO-SYD flights.

The reason why this is big news to AA execs is because AA now gets to participate in longhaul revenues as part of the JV because they have their own metal in the OZ market.

 

[commavia]

Who ever made the distinction of mainline vs non-mainline gates?  Not me.
 
Back here in reality, AA has more mainline-capable gates than Delta has gates (total, mixed mainline/regional use) at LAX today, and that gap is only set to widen.  Much as some want to wish reality away, it is just simply indisputable that Delta has now been boxed in at LAX in terms of gate space.  Nobody appears likely to be giving up any gates in any of the terminals contiguous to Delta's T5/T6 operation anytime soon.  Thus the reason why - I suspect - Delta itself has spoken in months past about "completing" the schedule build-out at LAX.  Now, there's certainly no question that Delta can continue to grow capacity at LAX through upgauging and increasing frequency during non-peak hours, but absent getting more attractive gating rights on the north side and/or TBIT, and then facilitating the accompanying complexities of that type of operation, Delta at some point in the near future (or at least nearer future than AA) is going to hit up against some practical, physical limitations of its facilities.

 

[robbedagain]

Frugual  best posts and pics  awesome man  awesome!

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

and all of this size that you think will give AA an advantage comes from service to a number of 2nd and 3rd tier cities that AA serves .............

You haven't demonstrated that you have understood the concept of O&D traffic and not just seats in the market ...........................

 
It's amazing that a cheerleader of an airline that has its entire history built up on only service to 2nd and 3rd tier cities (domestic and international out of ATL - which until relatively recently some might still call a 2nd tier city) would now comment on AA/US serving 2nd and 3rd tier cities from LAX.  Priceless.
 
Even richer is the comment from the same DL cheerleader about the # of seats in a market.  If one takes a trip down memory lane, WT has preached on numerous occasions about the # of seats DL is a adding to a market, the rate of DLs growth in a market.  Heck he even dismissed AAs transcon A321 product in favor of DLs larger capacity 767s.  Now, all of a sudden the narrative changes.  Wow! 
 
Spin away!