Pafca Or The Twu?

[skycruiser]

Have you ever sat down and figured out what we have lost over the last twenty years? I did, and it aint pretty. Despite the fact that the industry has radically transformed itself over the last twenty years unions like the TWU, IAM and IBT have not formulated any strategy to gain back any of what we lost.

I have never figured the total cost out but that is like asking to figure out your cost of gas to drive into work for the last 22 years or the cost of insurance you paid on the car. I was a layoff victim after 9/11 and the union did one thing if any, it guaranteed my job back. For all those others in the company that were non-union they didn't fair as well. We had a bunch of folks on the verge of retirement that would have been cut first if no union existed. That would have been 35-45 years of service down the drain with nothing to look forward to at the end. Ask any of those folks if they really care about unions dues when crunch time comes. I have never had an overly high expectation of what my union is going to do for me but, because of TWU, I am again employed. I look at union dues not as an undo expense that is making someone else rich but as another monthly insurance payment that guarantees my return in times of layoff.

 

[Bob Owens]

I have never figured the total cost out but that is like asking to figure out your cost of gas to drive into work for the last 22 years or the cost of insurance you paid on the car. I was a layoff victim after 9/11 and the union did one thing if any, it guaranteed my job back. For all those others in the company that were non-union they didn't fair as well. We had a bunch of folks on the verge of retirement that would have been cut first if no union existed. That would have been 35-45 years of service down the drain with nothing to look forward to at the end. Ask any of those folks if they really care about unions dues when crunch time comes. I have never had an overly high expectation of what my union is going to do for me but, because of TWU, I am again employed. I look at union dues not as an undo expense that is making someone else rich but as another monthly insurance payment that guarantees my return in times of layoff.

Ok and how would that change if you were all in one union?

The point of my post was not union vs non-union, it was whether or not to stay with the TWU, a union that has brokered 20 years of concessions or try something new.

 

[skycruiser]

Ok and how would that change if you were all in one union?

The point of my post was not union vs non-union, it was whether or not to stay with the TWU, a union that has brokered 20 years of concessions or try something new.

It's kind of like choosing the worst of the two evils. It would be an interesting experiment to see just what the other union would and can really accomplish/do different for a group over the same 20 years.

 

[FlyStorms]

The thing is is that the TWU didn't support it's own people during a merger...or I suppose it did support those with deeper pockets/larger group.

You would think that during a merger/buyout/whatever that TWU-TWU, same class and craft should dovetail without any question. You pay the TWU to help you in these times. Yet the TWA dispatchers were generously (cough, cough) "given" 25% of their seniority instead of having a straight dovetail. Sorry, but the TWU dispatchers paid the same amount of union dues to be protected in this kind of instance.

Makes you wonder why you even pay dues for that kind of so-called "protection", doesn't it?

 

[skycruiser]

The thing is is that the TWU didn't support it's own people during a merger...or I suppose it did support those with deeper pockets/larger group.

You would think that during a merger/buyout/whatever that TWU-TWU, same class and craft should dovetail without any question. You pay the TWU to help you in these times. Yet the TWA dispatchers were generously (cough, cough) "given" 25% of their seniority instead of having a straight dovetail. Sorry, but the TWU dispatchers paid the same amount of union dues to be protected in this kind of instance.

Makes you wonder why you even pay dues for that kind of so-called "protection", doesn't it?

I am assuming that you are speaking of the American TWA debacle. Kind of torn their since on one side it really sucks what happened but on the other hand you have to remember it it wasn't a merger, it was a buyout. American bought TWA out of bankruptcy and this time around, without that money, TWA would not have made it on it's own. So, for what it was worth, AMR keep a lot of TWA employees in the green for longer than they would have been after 9/11(which would have forced TWA into chapter 7). Look what happened to Eastern and Pan Am, they were bought off piece by piece and eventually shut down leaving the employees to fend for themselves. No union help their. Is PAFCA better or worse than TWU? I can't answer that but I can tell you, with TWU I was recalled after 9/11 and I bet with PAFCA there are folks at UAL that were recalled as well. I can also tell you that a lot of senior non-union folks that were let go after 9/11 are not back but a lot of junior employees that never got laid off are still here in their place. I am a believer that unions have their good and bad points but when everything is said and done the union employee, probably more than not, will come out ahead of a non-union employee when it hits the fan.
My opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[FlyStorms]

Merger, buyout....yes, it was a debacle.

All I was saying is that both AA and TWA dispatchers had the TWU "supporting" them. Same class, same craft, and the TWA dispatchers were still essentially not getting their money's worth when it came to the dues they'd been paying for in the event this kind of scenario was to happen. :down:

I just feel so bad for those folks who were continually told by the TWU international that they'd be taken care of, don't worry. Yeah, they were taken care of alright.

Okay, I've said my peace. It's done and over with, but sure makes me leery of dealing with this kind of unionism in the future.

 

[Bob Owens]

Merger, buyout....yes, it was a debacle.

All I was saying is that both AA and TWA dispatchers had the TWU "supporting" them. Same class, same craft, and the TWA dispatchers were still essentially not getting their money's worth when it came to the dues they'd been paying for in the event this kind of scenario was to happen. :down:

I just feel so bad for those folks who were continually told by the TWU international that they'd be taken care of, don't worry. Yeah, they were taken care of alright.

Okay, I've said my peace. It's done and over with, but sure makes me leery of dealing with this kind of unionism in the future.

Not you worry. You can always start the card drive again.

Perserverence is the key.

Mechanics are likely to get AMFA, this comes after many card drives. AMFA is one of the fastest growing unions in the country, over the last five years they have gone from 500 to 20,000. Its taken 40 years but its finally started to make it.

There is also a drive for the AGW going on at AA. THey are brand new but a union for baggage handlers is way overdue. Word is spreading fast.

One thing is certain, that if you chose to stay with the TWU there is only one way to go-down.

 

[Boomer]

I) The TWU Represented Dispatchers thought “Little Enoughâ€￾ of the TWU that 5.6% refused to vote.
219 Cast & Counted Ballots + 1 Voided Ballot = 220
233 Eligible Voters

220/233 = 5.6%

II) The TWU Represented Dispatchers thought “Little Enoughâ€￾ of the TWU that 51.5% voted to keep them.
120 TWU votes
233 Eligible Voters

120/233 = 51.5%

III) The TWU Represented Dispatchers thought “Little Enoughâ€￾ of the TWU that .4% voided their ballot.
1 Void Ballot
233 Eligible Voters

1/233 = .4%

IV) The TWU Represented Dispatchers thought “Little Enoughâ€￾ of the TWU that 42.5% wanted to replace them with PAFCA.
99 PAFCA votes
233 Eligible Voters

99/233 = 42.5%

Only the TWU would consider it a Major Victory when 1.5% of the votes cast in their favor allowed them to keep their job.

 

[Goldentail]

It's a done deal! TWU won.

 

[Bob Owens]

It's a done deal! TWU won.

Till the next election that is!