Ord-pvg

featheroleather said:
In what capacity do you work for the airlines?
I don't.

Why dont you enlightne us all and tell us how to get out of this quagmire this industry is in? I await your response.
[post="246092"][/post]​
I have, several times. You can look through my post history if you'd like.

The short answer for CO is to rearchitect the airline as one truly focused on the business passenger. In order to do that, the value proposition must rise, meaning that you need to provide more than the LCCs do, but not at ten times the fare.

Why is management telling us that without these concessions we wont be able to expand, get new planes (ex ATA 753's and 738's from boeing) and possibly furlough if we dont accept this?Classic mgmt double speak!
Furlough, I can understand. If you have marginal routes, they may be unprofitable without the concessions, but profitable with them. You cut those routes if you can't get the concessions. Of course, there are second-order effects to cutting those routes, namely the network effect in reverse. That is, cutting a few marginal routes might make some otherwise profitable routes become marginal routes, and so on, in a vicious cycle. This is the explanation behind the oft-repeated belief that an airline cannot shrink to profitability.

Can they get new planes for new routes? Sure they can, as long as they can issue corporate paper tied to the new service. If the company as a whole is marginal, then the cost of the debt may be too high. But we're talking about leasing, not buying, aircraft, so this shouldn't really be an issue. No, the issue with the 753/738s is a choice between moving existing metal around and adding new metal.
 
Since you have posted over 2,700 times can you plz narrow it down to your best 500 ?Reading about swimming and all the intricacies involved is not the same as juming into the pool. Its easy to be a monday morning quarterback.
 
featheroleather said:
Since you have posted over 2,700 times can you plz narrow it down to your best 500 ?
:lol: Maybe you can check out the "Why can't the airlines just raise fares?" thread, starting around page 10 or so. That covers a lot of the foundation of where I'm coming from. There are a few threads in the US section on CASM that will also tell a lot. BoeingBoy contribues a great deal there as well.

Reading about swimming and all the intricacies involved is not the same as juming into the pool.
[post="246117"][/post]​
Similarly, working as a mechanic, FA, pilot, scheduler, or any of hundreds of different positions within the airline doesn't tell you much. Ever read the poem The Blind Men and the Elephant?

You asked me what I think the airlines need to do. The answer depends on which airline. In no case is there an easy answer for the legacy carriers. The hard part of changing any business model is changing the culture of the company. Doing so requires true leadership, something lacking at the upper eschelons of most corporations. It doesn't change the need; it just changes the likelihood of it happening.

OBTW, since you mentioned Mr. Bethune before, I'll put this in terms applicable to him. Among true leaders, most are only able to apply a single new culture to a company. That is, they'd do fine as long as the company needs the new culture that this person can provide. In his case, the culture and CO's needs matched perfectly for most of the 1990s. They no longer do so, which makes his departure timely. I have yet to be convinced that his replacement has the ability to foster the necessary culture for this decade, and my sense is that you have the same opinion.
 
featheroleather said:
Since you have posted over 2,700 times can you plz narrow it down to your best 500 ?Reading about swimming and all the intricacies involved is not the same as juming into the pool. Its easy to be a monday morning quarterback.
[post="246117"][/post]​

Please, take your CO issues back over to the CO boards. We have enough problems here that we really don't need yours as well....
 
Fly said:
Sorry, Continental got it
[post="246183"][/post]​

Where is your prof? Haven't seen anything in the press to prove that they were awarded this route.
another cyrstal ball cloudy. Must have been a bad batch, buy a new one. :shock:
 
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #39
Former ModerAAtor said:
If CO got it, the DOT hasn't announced it yet, and they're usually pretty good about keeping the docket website up to date:

http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchResultsSim...ket&sortby=desc

There's also no press release issued by CO on it, and I think they'd be saying something by now if the award had gone in their favor.
[post="246732"][/post]​


Eric, what is your gut on this one? Do you think AA is going to get it over CO in 2005?
 
This route award is for Apr. 2005 start? How in the heck can an airline start a new international route with less than 2 months notice? Cargo rights were awarded last fall. Whats taking so long?
 
lpbrian said:
This route award is for Apr. 2005 start? How in the heck can an airline start a new international route with less than 2 months notice? Cargo rights were awarded last fall. Whats taking so long?
[post="246805"][/post]​

CO wants to start PEK in March of this year, and PVG in March, 2006.

http://www.continental.com/vendors/default...3D6&s=&i=PRNews

AA, on the other hand, wants to begin service to PVG on May 1, 2005 (and didn't request the other 7 frequencies, unless turned down for 2005).

http://www.aa.com/content/amrcorp/pressRel.../22_china.jhtml

May is doable for AA at this point, but March for CO would be pushing it.
 
Imagolfer said:
Eric, what is your gut on this one? Do you think AA is going to get it over CO in 2005?
[post="246758"][/post]​

My gut says that CO will get the 2005 award, and that AA will get the 2006 award. I'd like to see the reverse, but DOT is probably more interested in opening up a route from NY than it is to be adding competition from ORD.

My opinion (different from my gut) is available on the DOT's docket: http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.cfm?doc...&docketid=19077
 
Former ModerAAtor said:
My gut says that CO will get the 2005 award, and that AA will get the 2006 award. I'd like to see the reverse, but DOT is probably more interested in opening up a route from NY than it is to be adding competition from ORD.

My opinion (different from my gut) is available on the DOT's docket: http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.cfm?doc...&docketid=19077
[post="247084"][/post]​
Probably not that much difference now, since an early 2006 start is not that far away.
 
Well I don't know if I am wrong or what but in an HI6 message for a proffer for BOS-I there was a message that said there might also be another addition to the proffer for IOR to be effective MAY 1. It said that they will post this additional proffer when it is known of its manpower at IOR. I guess AA still thinks it is in the running for the China routes. If CO got it already then that is news to the company.
 
Former ModerAAtor said:
My gut says that CO will get the 2005 award, and that AA will get the 2006 award. I'd like to see the reverse, but DOT is probably more interested in opening up a route from NY than it is to be adding competition from ORD.

They'll be adding compieition from New York City too. Air China flies, non-stop, New York City-Beijing, which is what CO wants.
 

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