Ord-pvg

[featheroleather]

Im based out of EWR and we didnt have any involuntary furloughs here, but i do belive that in IAH they did furlough a small amouunt of F'A's for a short while. Getting back to the original post, CAL is using this old carrot and stick method to try to convince us for the need for concessions.On the one hand they want to hire new f/a's and expand to Europe and China big time then on the other hand they want us to give up the bennies we slowly got back since 83.

 

[mweiss]

What makes the two positions contradictory?

 

[featheroleather]

We dont want to fund the companys furture with our wage concessions and no snapback provisions while the top execs line their pockets tot the tune of $50 million in bonuses.

 

[eolesen]

We dont want to fund the companys furture with our wage concessions and no snapback provisions while the top execs line their pockets tot the tune of $50 million in bonuses.

[post="245927"][/post]​

If you don't want to fund the company's future, then start writing letters to the DOT asking them not to award you the route authorities....

 

[featheroleather]

Most of believe that CAL is not in as nearly dire financial straits as they are portraying.Of course we want to see new flying and new planes but not at the expense of employees.The only reason we are near or at the top in terms of pay in a lot of areas(for f/a's) is because of default, and now they want us to give back?

 

[mweiss]

We dont want to fund the companys furture with our wage concessions and no snapback provisions while the top execs line their pockets tot the tune of $50 million in bonuses.

[post="245927"][/post]​

Oh, I see. But you're confusing concessions with investment. The China expansion would have happened with or without the concessions, because the company's financial condition is better with the route than without. In other words, they are mutually independent events.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Most of believe that CAL is not in as nearly dire  financial straits as they are portraying.Of course we want to see new flying and new planes but  not at the expense of employees.The only reason we are near or at the top in terms of pay in a lot of areas(for f/a's) is because of default, and now they want us to give back?

[post="245948"][/post]​

featheroleather.

Grab your ankles now and bend over. It is inevitable.

We are all in a race for the bottom.

 

[mweiss]

Most of believe that CAL is not in as nearly dire financial straits as they are portraying.

[post="245948"][/post]​

Of course you don't believe it. But how many of you have actually gone to the trouble of finding out for yourself, rather than going on faith?

 

[featheroleather]

Shouldnt we move this over to the CAL Board?

 

[featheroleather]

Can you tell me what you would do? Would you give concessions with no snapback provisions while the company goes on a hiring and expansion binge and the bigshots line their pockets?The execs justify their bonuses as "retention pay" or else microsoft or nasa might swoop down and grab these people? Let em go i say. I dont see the top dogs at SWA lining their pockets in the name of retaining the talent, and that airline is obviously making money.

 

[FWAAA]

I dont see the top dogs at SWA lining their pockets in the name of retaining the talent, and that airline is obviously making money.

[post="246057"][/post]​

If you don't see it, then you might want to review the WN 10-K again; the execs at Southwest are indeed lining their pockets with lots of cash. Difference between WN and most other airlines is that WN execs are taking their cash in the form of stock options - which are, of course, valuable at WN (and not so attractive at most other airlines).

Bottom line result is the same - the company ends up paying out lots of cash.

 

[mweiss]

Would you give concessions with no snapback provisions while the company goes on a hiring and expansion binge...

[post="246057"][/post]​

You're missing the point. The concessions have nothing to do with the hiring and expansion. One does not, and should not, beget the other.

The execs justify their bonuses as "retention pay" or else microsoft or nasa might swoop down and grab these people?

Funny thing happens when you don't have the crack cocaine known as "seniority." You have far less holding you to your current company. Without those shackles, these people really are more likely to move. Let's face it...if it weren't for seniority, you'd want to move to the airline with the best package.

 

[featheroleather]

You're missing the point. The concessions have nothing to do with the hiring and expansion. One does not, and should not, beget the other.Well tell that to mgmt.They are the ones saying that without givebacks,. there will be no expansion.

Funny thing happens when you don't have the crack cocaine known as "seniority." You have far less holding you to your current company. Without those shackles, these people really are more likely to move. Let's face it...if it weren't for seniority, you'd want to move to the airline with the best package.

[post="246078"][/post]​

These airline geniuses know they arent going anywhere. In what capacity do you work for the airlines?Are you in management or just an interested observer?Why dont you enlightne us all and tell us how to get out of this quagmire this industry is in? I await your response.

 

[featheroleather]

If you don't see it, then you might want to review the WN 10-K again; the execs at Southwest are indeed lining their pockets with lots of cash. Difference between WN and most other airlines is that WN execs are taking their cash in the form of stock options - which are, of course, valuable at WN (and not so attractive at most other airlines).

Bottom line result is the same - the company ends up paying out lots of cash.

[post="246060"][/post]​

Are you saying 2 wrong make a right? At least at SW the profits are still rolling in. Gordo left with over 25m and now they want givebacks and thats okay? Didn't Iaccoca give himself a $1 annual salary at Chrysler when they were in the toilet?How many airline execs do you see "sharing the pain" like that?

 

[featheroleather]

Sorry about the duplicate posts.So you say that concessions have nothing to do with hiring and expansion and that one doesnt beget the other. Why is management telling us that without these concessions we wont be able to expand, get new planes (ex ATA 753's and 738's from boeing) and possibly furlough if we dont accept this?Classic mgmt double speak!