Official: AMR Bankrupt

[WorldTraveler]

So who do you think AA would benefit merging with? Alaska? Jetblue? Spirit? Hawaiian? Out of all the players left over there... US is the biggest. As much as I hate US and I hope that they go to hell, realistically US is the most logical choice for for AA. No other major carrier merger will be allowed by the government.

And to all the AA egomaniacs.... don't worry. AA will be the surviving name with any merger with any carrier. Besides, Doug Parker can't wait to dump the US Airways name.

this bizarre notion that because US is the smallest non-bankrupt carrier it should get first crack at AMR is delusional at best.
AMR's creditors are interested in the best return on their investment - if that comes from another airline or another investor - or from AA under its own reorg plan, that is what it will be.
.
The simple fact is that US has an unfinished merger of its own, offers little strategic benefit to AA, and has financial performance that is lower tier than most of the airlines you named and you didn't include DL or UA who also could find value in some of AA's assets - and very well could engage in the same carveouts to avoid anti-trust concerns that US will have to engage in... remember that the DOJ was very close to blocking the US/DCA side of the slot deal because US now controls the majority of slots at DCA? It is all but impossible for US to obtain even one more slot at DCA, esp. the 15% that AA operates w/o triggering antitrust concerns.
If AA has to be piecemealed out to avoid antitrust concerns - which would apply to ANY of the other network carriers - then there are other carriers with deeper pockets than US.
.
This notion that because Dougie wants AA bad enough and because US is the ugliest girl left w/o a partner in the past five years so she deserves a crack at AA is just not the way the real world works, as much as US' publicity machine would like you to believe it - and a few uninformed so-called analysts will jump on that nonsense showing how little they understand not only the airline industry but business as a whole.

 

[flybynite]

Actually your wrong, AWA didnt raise any money for the merger.

US raised all the money with the help of Seabury and Associates, Airbus, Air Wisconsin, Air Canada and several investment firms invested in the new US.

I stand corrected. But I knew Air Canada was involved somehow


Actually AWA did also have a large part in getting all the investors together. It was a joint effort from what I remember reading.

No, Bruce Lakefield, who was our CEO at the time pulled the investors together. He's still on our BOD.

 

[TWU informer]

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/11/29/3557415/arpey-could-not-mend-relationships.html

Arpey could not mend relationships with unions

American had lost $12 billion in the last decade -- $7 billion since Arpey took over as CEO -- and is likely to record a billion-dollar-plus loss for 2011.

And the man never figured out that the source of union anger was a management bonus program that rewarded regardless of poor leadership and continued losses.
It was an absurd award plan to begin with and even more absurd to never make adjustments even after the anger was expressed.

When your employees give up 1.8 billion per year to save your airline, and then you continue to get management bonus awards even though you have failed to turn profits with the 1.8 billion, you should at least adjust the compensation package to make business sense instead of continued slapping the unions in the face.

Stupid is as Stupid Does.

I for one am gald the dumbass is gone. Too bad the Board of Directors let this ignorance continue.

Now let's see what Horton can do to mend the burned bridges.

 

[Bob Owens]

In BK proceedings USAirways management way overstated how underfunded the pilots pension fund was. The judge gave the company all the time they needed to state their case and I think the pilots got a day or a day and a half to state their side. Bottom line is that the pension fund has been found to be fairly close to 100% funded. that being said with 30yrs. invested in the pilot plan I got about 40% of my already accrued benefit. I hope that your employee groups will talk with other airline employees to be more prepared. I would not delay because events will unfold rapidly. Best of luck to you all.

Regards,


Bob

So my guess is you had accrued a pension worth over $100k a year?

 

[odie01]

And the man never figured out that the source of union anger was a management bonus program that rewarded regardless of poor leadership and continued losses.
It was an absurd award plan to begin with and even more absurd to never make adjustments even after the anger was expressed.

When your employees give up 1.8 billion per year to save your airline, and then you continue to get management bonus awards even though you have failed to turn profits with the 1.8 billion, you should at least adjust the compensation package to make business sense instead of continued slapping the unions in the face.

Stupid is as Stupid Does.

I for one am gald the dumbass is gone. Too bad the Board of Directors let this ignorance continue.

Now let's see what Horton can do to mend the burned bridges.

Horton and Arepay are best budds and one of the same, only Horton likes to crunch the numbers, the ultimate bean counter and OHs worst nightmare,

 

[comatose]

And the man never figured out that the source of union anger was a management bonus program that rewarded regardless of poor leadership and continued losses.
It was an absurd award plan to begin with and even more absurd to never make adjustments even after the anger was expressed.

When your employees give up 1.8 billion per year to save your airline, and then you continue to get management bonus awards even though you have failed to turn profits with the 1.8 billion, you should at least adjust the compensation package to make business sense instead of continued slapping the unions in the face.

Stupid is as Stupid Does.

I for one am gald the dumbass is gone. Too bad the Board of Directors let this ignorance continue.

Now let's see what Horton can do to mend the burned bridges.

Horton pays more in property taxes than you make yearly.
I couldn't afford 74k.

He wouldn't give a rats arse about any employee.

He wants rid of OH.
He wants rid of pensions.
He wants rid of retiree medical.
He wants rid of pilot scope.


Did Horton receive bonuses? You bet he did.

The reason Arpey left is he wasn't going to be the hatchet man.

You better hang on because its all set in motion.

 

[TWU informer]

Horton pays more in property taxes than you make yearly.
I couldn't afford 74k.

He wouldn't give a rats arse about any employee.

He wants rid of OH.
He wants rid of pensions.
He wants rid of retiree medical.
He wants rid of pilot scope.


The reason Arpey left is he wasn't going to be the hatchet man.

You better hang on because its all set in motion.

Got any proof of these statements? Or is this all internet rumors?

 

[Bob Owens]

I have some questions for the union leadership..

To the pilots...are you guys still MULLING over the company's last offer? Are you still expecting that 21% raise on top of the 10% lump sump?


To the TWU......are you guys still going to petition the NMB to release us? (hahahahahahhaha)

My local leadership has ACTUALLY stated that we are better off in BK......These arseholes are dreaming.

Bankruptcy will not create a new supply of pilots. They aren't scared, we should not be either, we should be mad, mad at how they lied, mad at how they stole from us, mad at how they are trying to scam their way through BK while they have $24 billion in revenue coming in, over $4 billion in cash and apparently plan on honoring it's frequent flyer miles, it orders for new aircraft and maintain pretty much everything else, save some underwater leases on old aircraft and use BK to get what they could not get in negotiations.

I believe we have said we would have been better off had we gone BK in 2003, when most of the industry was in BK, than agreeing to give up more outside of BK than some gave up in BK. UAL and USair had to go back for a second round of cuts to catch up to what we gave up in one shot outside of BK. If we had went that route back then we probably would have ended up where USAir and UAL did after round one and he carnage would have stopped. We probably would have recovered more by now because if we had joined the ranks of BK carriers then the problem would have been labelled systemic, much like what Rails went through many years prior.When they saw what AA got away with that sent them back, and now, after eight years we see AA filing anyway. So the concessions of 2003 were for naught.

 

[AV1]

Bankruptcy will not create a new supply of pilots. They aren't scared, we should not be either, we should be mad, mad at how they lied, mad at how they stole from us, mad at how they are trying to scam their way through BK while they have $24 billion in revenue coming in, over $4 billion in cash and apparently plan on honoring it's frequent flyer miles, it orders for new aircraft and maintain pretty much everything else, save some underwater leases on old aircraft and use BK to get what they could not get in negotiations.

I believe we have said we would have been better off had we gone BK in 2003, when most of the industry was in BK, than agreeing to give up more outside of BK than some gave up in BK. UAL and USair had to go back for a second round of cuts to catch up to what we gave up in one shot outside of BK. If we had went that route back then we probably would have ended up where USAir and UAL did after round one and he carnage would have stopped. We probably would have recovered more by now because if we had joined the ranks of BK carriers then the problem would have been labelled systemic, much like what Rails went through many years prior.When they saw what AA got away with that sent them back, and now, after eight years we see AA filing anyway. So the concessions of 2003 were for naught.

Give up, not a clue!

 

[SharoninSAT]

.
Sorry to hear about the BK.
Best Wishes and Good Luck to all of you.

Sharon

 

[odie01]

Bankruptcy will not create a new supply of pilots. They aren't scared, we should not be either, we should be mad, mad at how they lied, mad at how they stole from us, mad at how they are trying to scam their way through BK while they have $24 billion in revenue coming in, over $4 billion in cash and apparently plan on honoring it's frequent flyer miles, it orders for new aircraft and maintain pretty much everything else, save some underwater leases on old aircraft and use BK to get what they could not get in negotiations.

I believe we have said we would have been better off had we gone BK in 2003, when most of the industry was in BK, than agreeing to give up more outside of BK than some gave up in BK. UAL and USair had to go back for a second round of cuts to catch up to what we gave up in one shot outside of BK. If we had went that route back then we probably would have ended up where USAir and UAL did after round one and he carnage would have stopped. We probably would have recovered more by now because if we had joined the ranks of BK carriers then the problem would have been labelled systemic, much like what Rails went through many years prior.When they saw what AA got away with that sent them back, and now, after eight years we see AA filing anyway. So the concessions of 2003 were for naught.

I agree Bob, they got bankruptcy wages and benifits in 03 and they are going to get them again. The way I look at it, we went through two banckruptcies, they win. NMB, RLA, fucks the working man, I'm pissed

 

[Bob Owens]

RT, Thanks for the well - wishes. Hunble Pie is actually a S#1T sandwich, but I would think the AMR mgt believes they will get stronger. That's a fantasy too, because none of them knows how to program an FMC, or troubleshoot anything ON an airplane. Ch. 7 could be the result of their failed "management".

Elizabeth Warren said in that PBS video that the objective is for these companies to see how low they can go before workers rebel, either quitting or they can't hire anyone.

Well the longer we take to rebel the more they will take. According to their way of thinking if the planes are still going out and people are showing up to work then there is more room to take.

 

[Black Magic]

What people fail to realize its not just about AA or US Airways. 3 large hub and spoke carriers have much less competition than the 5 currently operating. With a merger of US/AA there will be 3 large carriers and with less competition will be able to raise fares. The industry is far too fragmented with everyone competing for the same seats. In case nobody has noticed that is the whole reason for the DL/NW and UA/CO hookup too lessen competition and strengthen the networks.

 

[Bob Owens]

The mechanics are certainly going to lose. The pay comparison that is equal of better worldwide for a pilot is certainly worse for an A&P. Even worse are the pay/benefit comparisons for the thousands of jobs at AA that essentially require a High School Diploma and two weeks or less of training. When I got up and heard the news, I was unfazed at the personal cost to me. Writing this paragraph personally makes me sick thinking about the thousands that do not have my options and are the breadwinners with pay and health insurance.

Wrong, you see my tools and knowledge of systems are transferrable to work on anything mechanical, be it a lawnmower engine , an x ray machine, an air conditioner or a power plant supplying electricity to a city, and most of those jobs top out more than what we make. Mechanics will be fine. By the way AA employs mechanics in Europe, and they earn around $10hr more than us.

 

[MCI transplant]

Wrong, you see my tools and knowledge of systems are transferrable to work on anything mechanical, be it a lawnmower engine , an x ray machine, an air conditioner or a power plant supplying electricity to a city, and most of those jobs top out more than what we make. Mechanics will be fine. By the way AA employs mechanics in Europe, and they earn around $10hr more than us.

<_< ------- Good point! But how, if at all, will they be effected by all this?