xUT
Veteran
Ditto!
Official: AMR Bankrupt
- Thread starter commavia
- Start date
Ditto!
we are in the early stages of this thing ( yes I understand its going to move fast) , But so far we have basically been told nothing at the local levels from are union (not a surprise) the intl has put together the website aa.twu.org which actually is being up dated with what is happening in the courts and the some of the moves the twu has made already
They put out a fact sheet about BK http://aa.twu.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=_Yws_qqZCDs%3d&tabid=1494 althought it didn't really tell to much.
What I would like to know who, what person is going to represent us in court and speak for us on what is going to be taken/ given is it going to be the law firm they hired great or are own little minions (I hope not) what are we looking to save.
Are base pay for maint. is actually one of the lowest even according to AA own graphs. so I hope are base stays the same or even increases do to the fact what we give up or is taken will never make up for what we lost Hopefully the rejected t/a will be the base starting point as they come up with ways to save/take money
The best thing so far that I have seen was alot of wastsed money on leases that they are trying to get rid of. with all that waste alone I don't see how they can blame those costs on us, lumping that #### in with labor cost.
At anybody elses local level, what actions are your Prez. taking, how are you being informed correctly about what is happening, not the B.S. that spews from this site
They put out a fact sheet about BK http://aa.twu.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=_Yws_qqZCDs%3d&tabid=1494 althought it didn't really tell to much.
What I would like to know who, what person is going to represent us in court and speak for us on what is going to be taken/ given is it going to be the law firm they hired great or are own little minions (I hope not) what are we looking to save.
Are base pay for maint. is actually one of the lowest even according to AA own graphs. so I hope are base stays the same or even increases do to the fact what we give up or is taken will never make up for what we lost Hopefully the rejected t/a will be the base starting point as they come up with ways to save/take money
The best thing so far that I have seen was alot of wastsed money on leases that they are trying to get rid of. with all that waste alone I don't see how they can blame those costs on us, lumping that #### in with labor cost.
At anybody elses local level, what actions are your Prez. taking, how are you being informed correctly about what is happening, not the B.S. that spews from this site
Overspeed
Veteran
- Jun 27, 2011
- 3,245
- 1,065
Wait a second. You blame the TWU Int'l for advising the negotiating team that if they did not come up with a deal soon as rolling over and to take AA on and now you say the TWU is caught up in their lies? What? AMFA advised their members to strike and the TWU said that was a bad idea and they would probably get replaced and they did. The TWU advised that if the presidents did not make adjustments AA would file BK.
Sounds like we the members didn't listen and now WE are reaping what we sowed. If the Int'l was running the show like you have claimed we would have long since had a deal and you would still be posting how the TWU sucks, sign AMP cards, and name calling the Int'l while you still had your pension and would not be risking major contractual changes.
Misdirection again? Let it go. The tough guys with the balls of steel didn't get kicked, they got neutered.
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
Wasn't blaming anybody or anything. You are the one with a mouth full of blame not me.
I was simply stating that nearly every fear mongering threat used to stop the AMFA drive has now come true with your precious TWU.
But since you brought it up, James C. Little has proven he has the right to sign an agreement without ratification.
If he was the savior as you claim.... Why didnt he sign one then?
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
your so right overspeed they alll want to blame the intl. NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wasn't blamong anyone. Get your finger off of your emotional hair trigger.
I just stated fact.
signals
Veteran
Remember when everyone thought that Reagan had busted up unions because he fired the ATC workers-not true by the way?
Corporate America took advantage of that, and unions began presenting a take-it-or-leave-it package. From there is when you got add ons and delete this to contracts. While we weren't paying attention -or someone got paid off we voted ourselves in a corner.
Maybe it takes longer for some, but that is the jist of it.
Didn't say you where blaming anyone (we are probaly on the same pg.) What I meant, the guys on this board that said AMP was going to be the savior. That the TWU wouldn't let are own guys get a contract. The intl. owns the contract they will take what ever the company says and force it on us. We will be better off in BK , well now we will see.
But after looking at some of thing AA was paying for, I find it hard to blame labor costs alone when throwing millions after millions into the wind
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
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God I really feel bad for you folks right now. You really didn't pay any attention while the rest of the industry went through this process did you. You are a bankrupt carrier. Everything you ever worked for or did for your company means nothing now. You are very late to this game. What you are now is a very attractive bunch of assets that the rest of the industry who already took our medicine would like to have for dinner. You should embrace a merger with Us as It doesn't matter what you want anymore it matters what the industry will allow. Face it the only way for AA to be a player is to merge with US. You talk about B6 but really. That won't make you a player. Will just create a lot of drama and you get some Airbus AC. If you don't merge with Us you will just be another low rent carrier that Delta and United will put up with till they can put you down or acquire your assets. A merger with Us will allow the AA name to continue and thrive as the #3 legacy to survive. If you do not merge with Us, United and Delta will come up with a very lucrative package to cut up your airline and keep all the good stuff. The creditors that will have the final decision on any offers could not care less if AA survives. They just want Money. As much as they can recover. Delta/United may offer some of your senior employees jobs to offset the training costs and will most certainly keep all you language people after an interview and then give them 1 for 4 seniority. (Just like Delta /Pan Am) I can almost garrantee that US will settle F/A and Pilot integration in the next month or 2. They will offer them Continentals(now United) most recent contract and they will jump on it. Its your choice. I can tell by the way you all talk about this process that you have no idea that the judge will cut your pay by 25% in one day and thats it. Done. We all did it already. One thing you can take to the bank is US is a survivor. If you value your job they can take you along for the ride. You can always clean up there low cost image later. If not AA is a very attractive pie and Delta an United are still hungry.
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
What if via Bankruptcy AA merged with American Eagle, seniority list merged, and then the new Pilot pay scale was negotiated and AA took over the regional flights?
I know the Boyd group thinks AMR is not going to spin off Eagle now and that the plan is to reject leases on many RJ’s. So what if they merge the two and AA and APA take over the regional flying with a new pay scale?
This would eliminate the long standing feud between APA and ALPA and AMR could rid itself of the double management that it takes to fly two airlines. This would ease the scope clause issues and save tons of hard feelings and double cost.
I know the Boyd group thinks AMR is not going to spin off Eagle now and that the plan is to reject leases on many RJ’s. So what if they merge the two and AA and APA take over the regional flying with a new pay scale?
This would eliminate the long standing feud between APA and ALPA and AMR could rid itself of the double management that it takes to fly two airlines. This would ease the scope clause issues and save tons of hard feelings and double cost.
AA already owns the planes, but I still think AE is a money pit and now that they have filed for reorganization they don't need to keep burning cash.
Super FLUF
Senior
- Jun 10, 2011
- 313
- 206
Good idea in theory, but the problem is, management wants to keep the smaller planes on a permanent C or D scale. Allowing those planes at mainline means that eventually, we at APA will be demanding mainline wages, work rules, and pensions to fly those aircraft.
The better decision for management is to outsource that flying to several different operators that pay crap wages with little or no bennies. If one of the operators threatens to strike, they will simply have one of the competitors move in and take over the flying.
This is the new modus operandi of management. The threat of a bonafide strike by labor has always been their biggest Achilles's heel. Buying off the NMB was a great first step, but not a permanent or guaranteed solution. Splitting up the workgroups down to competing sup groups works out great. I can only imagine what AA has in store for the TWU. They will try to outsource and sub-contract everything they can. Try to get anything back in a few years and it will be "we can't afford that. If you can't agree to 'competitive' wages, then we will have to go with another vendor".
We have already seen this in the pilot group through domestic code share. We have now lost massive amounts of flying to JBLU, AK, and BA, and IB.
What a glorious vision executive management has for all of us labor bricks. We can all work for minimum wage with no benefits and all will be right with the world.
A few problems for AA if thats their strategy.
Pilots, they are a dying breed. However there's still a demand for pilots, people just arent that interested anymore. Look at how the numbers have dropped on the FAA website. Many pilots were willing to work for low wages because they figured it was a way of building up hours so that they could eventually get to the left seat of one of the high paying big ones. If the best jobs are not so good anymore the supply of people willing to work basically for the experience will dissapear. Eagles greatest challenge will be staffing, thats another reason to dump it and their small planes once they secure a steady stream of pilots (and mechanics) from them for mainline. It was the wages at AA and the majors that brought people into the Industry, nobody made the investment and went to school with the intention on working for the wages that LCCs were offering, those wages are easy enough to find without making any investment.
As the supply of pilots dwindle smaller aircraft will be even less appealing. Why waste a pair of pilots flying 50 people when you need them to fly 300? Should they leave an RJ or a 777 , and all its passengers, grounded, for lack of crew?
As far as mechanics, we too are a dying breed, same thing as far as demand but not as acute as pilots. However Jet Blue Mechanics top out about 20% higher than AA, and I believe AK, BA and IB top out higher as well. Already there are companies that can not get mechanics, even in those places where licenses are not needed they are having trouble getting people with mechanical abilities, and the industry has to compete with other industries that pay better and are looking for the same skillsets. The only thing the airlines have going for them now is that the workforce is older, at AA the average is well over 50, so they are not considered mobile, not likely to leave, however this strategy of exploiting the fears of older workers is likely to backfire, there wont be enough people coming out to replace the ones that do leave, and eventually they will all leave and all need to be replaced.
