Ny Times Scab Interview 8/24

[upsilon]

Amen, E-- (Fomer Mod), Amen! They are my three priorities also. In my opinion anyone who doesn't put all of them first hasn't much of a claim to being a "Real Man'.

I wonder if a single-Mother could or would claim to be 'Real Woman' if she allowed her children to become homeless and underfed because she 'stood up for her principles'?

Just as the concept of the need for trade unions at all, the term 'scab' has lost its cachet and is relatively meaningless to the general public. And, as unionism declines, the 'once-a-scab/always-a-scab' lists become less a threat. When balanced against family priorities and obligations, the word becomes meaningless.

Of course, the die-hard unionists will disagree; but collectively they are a rapidly diminishing group-think breed. And I attribute it to the same complaints of the anti-TWU and anti-IAM posters: their leaders are interested only in dues and their own perks.

I'm old enough to remember John L. Lewis and his modest home in Alexandria and the spartan UMW offices in D.C. I was then an employer consultant in negotiations with UMW District 50, a catch-all for non-mineworker Locals.

It is over 50 years later. Unions are always a "threat"; but one that enlightened management can avoid. And unions can't be "busted" by management alone; but they can be eliminated by their own actions or by being voted off the property. It seems to me that the AMT are assisting NW in union 'busting' by their own actions.

 

[MCI transplant]

Who are you or I to judge if the former UAL-AMFA guys now working as replacements had anything better to pick from?

One thing I do know for certain is that when you dump a couple thousand mechanics on the street at the same time in a place like MCI or IND, odds are that there won't be a lot of choices for second best. Take that to a high cost of living area like SFO or OAK, and you know that there won't be a lot of choices for replacing a mechanic's income.

Self respect also takes different forms.

My main obligations are to God, family, and country first, and my career comes somewhere after those three. If I can't take care of my family, I will lose far more self-respect than if I make a career move that I might not otherwise want to take for various reasons.

So, you can second guess the reasons for why someone would choose to cross a picket line or work as a replacement. I'm chosing not to pass judgement on either them or the strikers.

[post="293376"][/post]​

<_< But your postings have been, a little, shall we say, not exactly, pro-labor!!!! I'm trying to be diplomatic here!!!! I really don't want to use the word "Buyest"!!! But I will!!!!!

 

[keeptheodds]

I stand strong in my family beliefs I also stand strong for the freedoms our country gives. This is my third encounter with a union. The first two were very sour. Today your unions are as corrupt as the management you hate. Management has run Northwest and a bunch of other companies into the ground. Your union management is doing the same to your unions yet you support them with an undying fever. It is time for a change on both sides. This strike is going to all but neutralize AMFA's bargaining power. If it doesn't fail altogether it will be an ineffective lame duck for years to come. Northwest is going to go into bankruptcy and if the shareholders are smart they will clean house, if northwest survives the BK. Any one with a 9th grade education could have seen how foolish this strike was going to be. You self-proclaimed educated union fanatics have hung your fellow brothers out to dry. Congratulations.

 

[Red Tail Bear]

KTO,
You are a real POS. You come on a forum board and talk tough and try to come across as a big man but in reality you're a little coward. You enter and exit the building away from these people whose jobs you are trying to take. You call these people every name in the book and belittle them on this forum yet you don't know any of these people from a hole in the wall. You do these things under the guise of anonymity even amongst your own kind (scabs). These are the character traits of a coward, a man that lacks the testicular fortitude to identify himself to any "single one" of these people in person. Its one thing to act upon a grudge against unions but to come on this forum and grandstand and call attention to yourself the way you have is cowardly. Be a real man and go tell these people walking the picket lines who you are and how you really feel. Come on big man show us weak union guys how a real man should act. I dare you!

[post="293320"][/post]​

KTO,
Just in case you missed this post on the previous page.

What say you?

 

[eolesen]

<_< But your postings have been, a little, shall we say, not exactly, pro-labor!!!! I'm trying to be diplomatic here!!!! I really don't want to use the word "Buyest"!!! But I will!!!!!

[post="293538"][/post]​

Am I biased?

Absolutely.

I'm a die-hard nationalist independent who firmly believes in right to work and free markets.

I don't believe in letting management/labor disputes impact innocent bystanders (i.e. customers and the other workgroups on property). I think arbitration, be it regular or Baseball style, should be required before the NMB releases parties into self-help.

And no, I don't believe in union busting any more than I believe in union suicide.

Personally, I think AMFA and its members would still be better off being on the job and working towards a contract, as opposed to engaging in self-help.

But those biased views really have nothing to do with the topic at hand, which is whether or not the people choosing to act as replacements had better options.

 

[Birdman]

FM, your white collar through and through. Management, period. You can't have it both ways, to be biased, free market, and right-to-work, yet not anti-union in some form or fashion. You can't be ignorant to the way NW management has brutalized AMFA for the last several years. They've lost half their membership though station closings and rifs. They were given an ultimatum to agree to cut their ranks in half again and a 25% reduction in pay to boot. I guess from your management point of view that's a great deal and they're fools for not approving it. I think they just said enough is enough and I agree with their choice. Are we to believe that there is nothing your superiors could do to you that would cause you to tell AA to go fly a kite?

 

[NWA_NJ]

Maybe if AMFA wasn't so focused on increasing their membership numbers and dues by including the aircraft cleaners and related staff, their "Mechanics" union would be in a better position to negotiate with the airline. It's funny... no one mentions any of the cleaners on this board.

You have all this venom against NWA. It should really be directed at your own union leadership. They are the ones that let you down and led you down this path.

 

[eolesen]

You can't be ignorant to the way NW management has brutalized AMFA for the last several years. They've lost half their membership though station closings and rifs.

And how is this unique to AMT's at NWA? You can't be ignorant to the way that this has been happening pretty much across the board at all of the legacy majors. Unions are great fans of Keeping Up With The Jones's when it means better pay, but never seem to agree to parity when it means job cuts.... And thanks to the LCC's, plus US, UA, and AS, what NWA is seeking to do is Keeping Up With The Jones's.

I guess from your management point of view that's a great deal and they're fools for not approving it. I think they just said enough is enough and I agree with their choice.

I guess it's pretty easy to agree with their choice while you're still getting a paycheck... you have nothing to lose by agreeing with them.

I don't think that the contract offers that have been made public are a great deal for the people who end up being RIF'd, but at some point you have to decide which is the better bad choice -- taking 53% of what's there today and severence for the rest, or nothing.

If this does drag out for months, and AMFA winds up getting about the same as the offer mentioned a couple threads up from this one, I think they've probably done more of a disservice to their junior members by making them wait even longer for whatever severence they'd be entitled to. Right now, I don't think they'll even get unemployment, since the company will no doubt contest it for strikers.

Are we to believe that there is nothing your superiors could do to you that would cause you to tell AA to go fly a kite?

Sure, there's a breaking point for everyone. But if/when I decide I've had enough, I'm certainly not going be putting any pressure on my co-workers to go along for the ride.

 

[keeptheodds]

Red Tail Bear Yesterday, 12:56 PM Post #50
Rank: Advanced
Group: Registered Member
Posts: 137
Joined: 21-April 04
Member No.: 3,807
QUOTE(Red Tail Bear @ Aug 27 2005, 02:05 PM)
KTO,
You are a real POS. You come on a forum board and talk tough and try to come across as a big man but in reality you're a little coward.

Go ahead Red Tail post your telephone number right here I'll give you a call. Come on coward I'm waiting.

 

[Red Tail Bear]

Red Tail Bear  Yesterday, 12:56 PM Post #50 
Rank: Advanced
Group: Registered Member
Posts: 137
Joined: 21-April 04
Member No.: 3,807
QUOTE(Red Tail Bear @ Aug 27 2005, 02:05 PM)
KTO,
You are a real POS. You come on a forum board and talk tough and try to come across as a big man but in reality you're a little coward.

Go ahead Red Tail post your telephone number right here I'll give you a call. Come on coward I'm waiting.

[post="294061"][/post]​

What's wrong KTO did I hit a nerve there with that post? Does the truth hurt? Your purpose of being on this forum is to stir the pot and instigate. If you don't like being called a scab and everything that goes with it, then you shouldn't have made the choice to come on here and taunt people. Just because you think unions serve no purpose doesn't mean it's true. It's just your opinion and your entitled to it. You've made your point and stated your opinion. So why do you feel you need to continue with this instigation and always get the last word?

Please do the majority of the people on this forum, including myself a favor, and

SCREW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hackman]

Maybe if AMFA wasn't so focused on increasing their membership numbers and dues by including the aircraft cleaners and related staff, their "Mechanics" union would be in a better position to negotiate with the airline. It's funny... no one mentions any of the cleaners on this board.

You have all this venom against NWA. It should really be directed at your own union leadership. They are the ones that let you down and led you down this path.

[post="294004"][/post]​

In case you don't know, and you obviously do not, the mechanic class and craft is determined by the government (NMB), not AMFA. AMFA represents cleaners much better than any industrial union. NWA airlines wanted to axe all the cleaners at NWA, and the AMFA negotiators told NWA managenment no, this is another strike issue.

Now the iam scab union has slithered in and taken over AMFA's work, but they better not get used to it.

Next time NWA_NJ, don't open your mouth when you don't know what your talking about. AMFA had no choice but to strike, and any other union with any honor would have done the same. NWA will target the other unions next. I guess that leaves only AMFA with any honor at the present time.

We shall soon see if the other unions cower, or fight.

 

[Birdman]

1.And how is this unique to AMT's at NWA?

2.I don't think that the contract offers that have been made public are a great deal for the people who end up being RIF'd,

3.Sure, there's a breaking point for everyone. But if/when I decide I've had enough, I'm certainly not going be putting any pressure on my co-workers to go along for the ride.

[post="294029"][/post]​

1.Is NW in BK?NO
Have the other leagacy's not in BK cut M&R in half?NO (not even close)
Has NW lost, in the last 4 years, the least of any legacy not in BK?YES
Are NW pension deficits far behind AA and CAL?NO
Does NW have the worst union relations of any legacy carrier?YES

2.How about the people not being RIF'd. Have you even seen the NW "last best offer"? I didn't think so.

3.Your comparing apples to oranges. Remember, me union. You management.

 

[eolesen]

1.Is NW in BK?NO
Have the other leagacy's not in BK cut M&R in half?NO (not even close)

Wrong. AA is the only one standing who still does the majority of their MRO in-house.

Last year, Alaska cut theirs, and DL cut theirs earlier this year. They're not in BK. Yet.

Southwest, Aloha, and FedEx don't have to cut their MRO in half because they never had near the level of in-house MRO that other legacies have had, and neither has America West.

CO took care of their MRO issues back in the 80's, and outsources at least about 60% of its overhauls.

Overseas, LH CX and other large carriers spun off their maintenance organizations into free standing MRO's which have to sink or swim on their own, and they didn't do it thru bankruptcy.

2.How about the people not being RIF'd. Have you even seen the NW "last best offer"? I didn't think so.

There was a link to a summary of it in another thread, but now that you bring it up, how many AMFA members saw that last best offer? How many of them really know what they turned down when they were told by Dell to walk off the job?

3.Your comparing apples to oranges. Remember, me union. You management.

Perhaps, but it doesn't change the fact that we all have breaking points where we decide we've had enough. The difference is how many lives we wreck in the process.

 

[MCI transplant]

Wrong. AA is the only one standing who still does the majority of their MRO in-house.

Last year, Alaska cut theirs, and DL cut theirs earlier this year. They're not in BK. Yet.

Southwest, Aloha, and FedEx don't have to cut their MRO in half because they never had near the level of in-house MRO that other legacies have had, and neither has America West.

CO took care of their MRO issues back in the 80's, and outsources at least about 60% of its overhauls.

Overseas, LH CX and other large carriers spun off their maintenance organizations into free standing MRO's which have to sink or swim on their own, and they didn't do it thru bankruptcy.
There was a link to a summary of it in another thread, but now that you bring it up, how many AMFA members saw that last best offer? How many of them really know what they turned down when they were told by Dell to walk off the job?
Perhaps, but it doesn't change the fact that we all have breaking points where we decide we've had enough. The difference is how many lives we wreck in the process.

[post="294513"][/post]​

<_< This is true, but when has aa ever worried about how many lifes it wrecks? :down: Signed: "Just anotherone of aa's redheaded stepchildren!!!!"

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Who are you or I to judge if the former UAL-AMFA guys now working as replacements had anything better to pick from?

One thing I do know for certain is that when you dump a couple thousand mechanics on the street at the same time in a place like MCI or IND, odds are that there won't be a lot of choices for second best. Take that to a high cost of living area like SFO or OAK, and you know that there won't be a lot of choices for replacing a mechanic's income.

Self respect also takes different forms.

My main obligations are to God, family, and country first, and my career comes somewhere after those three. If I can't take care of my family, I will lose far more self-respect than if I make a career move that I might not otherwise want to take for various reasons.

So, you can second guess the reasons for why someone would choose to cross a picket line or work as a replacement. I'm chosing not to pass judgement on either them or the strikers.

[post="293376"][/post]​

That makes you a family man and a coward.
If you were a UAL AMT and cant find work other than crossing a picket line that makes you a SCAB.
There is no reasoning or sugar coating crossing a picket line.
Come to Florida and blactop driveways at 50 bucks a pop. At least you wont be a SCAB the rest of your lfe