Nwa Wants Chapter 11

[9epnsrip]

Lets face the facts. NW wants the AMFA to walk so they can file Chapter 11. If nw wanted to avoid seeing the Federal Judge (chapter 11). They could sell off some more XJ common stock. Nw still owns 27 % of XJ. NW has 35 Avro's. They are sub leasing 25 to XJ. Go head and sell the 10 other Avro's to XJ out right. Next we go to the PNCL (9e) stock, sell some more of that. Orbiz stock(NW holds 12%) it can go too. We have NWA.com (remember). We are doing away with Ticket jackets. Why??? we can sell ad space on those. How about selling ad space on the side of the new 787 Dreamliners?? Hey people. We knew this was in the works when Neal Cohen came in from US. I hate it that all of us are getting played like a cheap trick. But face it!! They are playing (with our pension and our livelihood). Oh to end 9E(pncl) is showing a profit this quarter. It called Created Accounting or B.O.H.I.C.A. to all those old Eastern folks who been played before, They have seen it before. My coworker is 66. He got nothing after 25 years with Eastern because of men like Cohen.

My facts are from the SEC report that NW filed. I hope they didn't pull a Enron.

 

[WorldTraveler]

NW is holding onto its few assets just as DL is doing with its ownership stake in Delta Connection BECAUSE you must have something of value to secure the debtor-in-possession financing needed in bankruptcy.

See my post on the DL forum re: a DL bankruptcy but I don't necessarily disagree with you that NW may have decided they need bankruptcy and are therefore headed into Chapter 11. My theory is that the DC9s which represent approx 30% of NW's capacity are no longer economical at present fuel prices; keeping those planes made sense in the 90s when fares were decent and fuel was relatively cheap. Even if fuel falls back to $40/bbl, fares aren't going up. NW management may have decided they have to get rid of those expensive airplanes. Bankruptcy is the only way to get the costs that support those planes down quickly. And if you eliminate that much capacity, then you lose alot of your route system, making it much more likely that you need to merge with someone in order for the little bit you do have left to continue to have value. DL and NW have alot of duplicated domestic capacity; DL also has more widebodies than they know what to do with, many of which could be redeployed on a combined DL-NW international system that would cover much of the world.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

World Traveler,

DL-NW ???????????

Who's the survivor ??

With (combined) hubs in ATL-DTW-CVG-MSP-NRT-MEM-, what hubs stay, besides ATL-DTW-NRT ???

Given the current situations, a DL-NW "union" would make sense.
Hell , if US and HP can do it, why not DL-NW.

I swear, I'll never totally understand this "nutty" industry !!!


NH/BB's

 

[Fly]

Imagine the stapling that the DL employees (pilots excluded) would endure if these two companies combined.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Imagine the stapling that the DL employees (pilots excluded) would endure if these two companies combined.

[post="285970"][/post]​

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Good point.....FLY,

However, these are "one" of the consequences that people must consider(years earlier) when they consistantly keep voting to keep a union OUT !!

In that scenario, I would'nt feel any compassion for any "STAPLE EE" !!

NH/BB's

 

[WorldTraveler]

actually, Western employees were taken en masse and were given one to one integration with their DL counterparts. Pan Am employees were hired selectively and DL was able to place Pan Am people where they wanted. In both cases, DL employees did as well if not better than mergers in other industries. DL flight attendants STILL make more than you, FLY, and they don't pay union dues. Oh, they also still have their defined pension plan. et tu?
If DL and NW combine, it is likely that the one not in bankruptcy controls. If both go to BK, it's anyone's guess but DL is larger and has substantially more tax assets which could determine the survivor.

 

[Fly]

Oh, they also still have their defined pension plan. et tu?

Yes I do!!! 16 years of marriage will get you a VERY nice one too!!


United is in BK, so of course we make less. Once Delta joins us, then we'll talk salary.

If you honestly believe that DL can avoid bk but NW can't, you are drinking more than your fair share of kool-aid. NW has the profitable routes, DL doesn't have anything close to that. The unions would be all over this (remember, they ONLY represent their dues-paying members)

 

[eolesen]

I do believe that NWA is in a better position than DL in that they still have Pinnacle stock which can be divested of. Pinnacle isn't exactly hamstrung by a monstrous fleet of CRJ's. Ain't nobody gonna be paying top dollar for either of the two DL commuter subsidiaries.

NWA also has the ability to downsize rather quickly, since the DC9's are owned. They've got the ability to park them overnight at little to no cost of continuing ownership, shedding a couple thousand employees in the process. DL doesn't own too much of its fleet these days.

 

[WorldTraveler]

NW's regional carriers are no more valuable than DL's. RJs are RJs and can be redeployed quite easily. As we have seen with US and UA, regional carriers switch partners as often as a young.... you get the idea.
DL and NW both have the same amount of uncollaterized equity in their fleet - absolutely none. Both airlines have no unpledged aircraft that have market value available for sale. And if you think NW can ground a significant portion of its DC9 fleet and shrink its operation outside of bankruptcy, you are woefully ignorant of airline economics. No airline can dramatically shrink outside of bankruptcy because there are too many contracts of every kind that were created based on a planned fleet size. Changing business plans quickly is extraordinarily difficult and almost impossible outside of bankruptcy.

Fly,
Unions could care less about the potential profitability of a carrier's routes. By that logic, UA employees should be some of the highest paid since not even I will dispute that UA has the best route system in the world. and if you think your wages will go up after UA gets out of BK, I suggest you limit your onboard consumption to bottles of Dasani water with the bottler's seal still intact.
I commend your fidelity to your husband but you don't have to troll the aisles of widebodies to get a spouse-backed pension.

 

[Fly]

Where did I say that unions care about profitable routes? I said that unions ONLY worry about THEIR dues paying members when it comes to integration of seniority. If you think management cares about which employee gets what seniority number, you are very mistaken. (where is that stapler???)

WT, again, did I suggest that we were getting raises after BK? NOPE, I said Delta employees are about to see how it feels to take the BIG cuts once they enter BK. By the way, so many employees of other airlines enjoyed watching us squirm in bk, I can't wait to do it back at them.

Have a great day!

 

[Saturdaynite]

Ok, correct me if I am wrong......

NWA is the only carrier that holds 5th Freedom Rights.
(aside from UAL who purchased it from PAN Am with pacific route)
The difference is that with NWA, it is branded to the Name.
And if the NWA Brand name ceases, so do the 5th F.R.

So a merger/acquisition with DL, or anyone, would require the NWA name to be dominant.
SN

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Where did I say that unions care about profitable routes? I said that unions ONLY worry about THEIR dues paying members when it comes to integration of seniority. If you think management cares about which employee gets what seniority number, you are very mistaken. (where is that stapler???)

WT, again, did I suggest that we were getting raises after BK? NOPE, I said Delta employees are about to see how it feels to take the BIG cuts once they enter BK. By the way, so many employees of other airlines enjoyed watching us squirm in bk, I can't wait to do it back at them.

Have a great day!

[post="286161"][/post]​

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World Traveler,

I think FLY just "####'(ed) slapped YOU" !!!

"OUCH"


NH/BB's

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

World Traveler,

I think FLY just "BI*CH(ed) Slapped YOU" !!!

"OUCH"


NH/BB's

 

[mistified]

actually, Western employees were taken en masse and were given one to one integration with their DL counterparts. Pan Am employees were hired selectively and DL was able to place Pan Am people where they wanted. In both cases, DL employees did as well if not better than mergers in other industries. DL flight attendants STILL make more than you, FLY, and they don't pay union dues. Oh, they also still have their defined pension plan. et tu?
If DL and NW combine, it is likely that the one not in bankruptcy controls. If both go to BK, it's anyone's guess but DL is larger and has substantially more tax assets which could determine the survivor.

[post="286022"][/post]​

Not to worry WT. Delta will survive. This is all part of their plan, right?

 

[eolesen]

NW's regional carriers are no more valuable than DL's. RJs are RJs and can be redeployed quite easily. As we have seen with US and UA, regional carriers switch partners as often as a young.... you get the idea.

[post="286157"][/post]​

Yeah, Independence Err is proving how easy it is to redeploy RJs....

Not all RJ's are equal. There is a lot of belief that the 50 seat RJ market is beyond the point of saturation. That's not the case with 70+ seaters, nor does it appear to be the case with turboprops.

Mesaba has 35 of the Avro 85's (80+ seats) and 69 Saab 340's (A and B models, 30+ seats). Pinnacle has 51 of the 50 seat CRJ200's and 72 of the CRJ440's, which is a 44 seat version.

Combined, they've got a fairly even distribution at 30 seats, 44 seats, 50 seats, and 80 seats.

ASA has 16 ATR 72's, 97 CRJ200's + 20 options, and 31 CRJ700's.

Comair has 100 CRJ100's, 37 CRJ200's, and 27 CRJ700's. Note that the brunt of the 50 seaters are 100's, and somewhat old by regional aircraft standards, thus of less value to an aquirer.

Combined, they've got decent number of 70 seaters, and an obscene 250 of the 50 seaters, but nothing smaller than that.