Not all airlines use bankruptcy as tool to shed contracts

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Fair enough. Nobody is disputing that you took painful paycuts.
Which would have accomplished what, exactly? You'd all be rolling in piles of money today as a result?
You couldn't be more incorrect on this point.

Perhaps you don't remember the $480 million in new UAL stock handed to the UAL executives upon UAL's emergence from bankruptcy? The top 400 managers were given 8% of the stock, worth about $480 million. They wanted 15% of the stock, worth $900 million, but ended up getting a little more than half that amount.

Here's some articles detailing the management greed and theft at UAL:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/airl...4431769,00.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/29/business...and&emc=rss

AMR's executives would have likely been given twice that much. Think you're pissed off? Have a chat with some UAL mechanics (if you can find any).

On top of that, UAL blew through over $660 million in bankruptcy lawyers, accountants, investment bankers and other advisors during their bankruptcy. Easiest place to get that money is from the employees' pockets.

I would rather fight the greed in corporate America then roll over like the rest of you.

The truth be told in bankruptcy instead of the smoke and mirrors this company uses.

A select few make out but not the top 1000

 

[Redbone]

OH BOY!!!!!!!!! DOES THIS MEAN THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO GET OUR CONCESSIONS BACK?????????

OH BOY, THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO GET EVERYTHING BACK FOR US!!!!!!!!!!! OH WHAT A GLORIOUS DAY!

It means that your job won't be going to Chinese or Indian FA's(under Republicans)...but to Mexican illegal aliens once the Dems push amnesty through (for the 20-30 million here), and ENSURE that their new laws have an ENDLESS supply of cheap labor at America's door step.(that's the purpose of AMNESTY...long term path to citizenship)

There is VERY little difference between both parties. They don't give a damn about everyday Americans.

 

[Itestwell]

AA always takes the high road, especially when integrating employee groups!

 

[MCI transplant]

AA always takes the high road, especially when integrating employee groups!

<_< --- One from USairways should have little to say about integrating work forces! Let's talk about it after the fact, not before.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

OH BOY!!!!!!!!! DOES THIS MEAN THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO GET OUR CONCESSIONS BACK?????????

OH BOY, THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO GET EVERYTHING BACK FOR US!!!!!!!!!!! OH WHAT A GLORIOUS DAY!

...........................................................

Hopeful,

If you INSIST, on continuing this kind of talk, I'm gonna' have to drive down from NH to JFK, to have a STEARN "chat" with you !

NH/BB's

 

[Hopeful]

...........................................................

Hopeful,

If you INSIST, on continuing this kind of talk, I'm gonna' have to drive down from NH to JFK, to have a STEARN "chat" with you !

NH/BB's

We could always fly to TULSA for a BBQ sandwich and Cole Slaw!

 

[eolesen]

It means that your job won't be going to Chinese or Indian FA's(under Republicans)...but to Mexican illegal aliens once the Dems push amnesty through (for the 20-30 million here), and ENSURE that their new laws have an ENDLESS supply of cheap labor at America's door step.(that's the purpose of AMNESTY...long term path to citizenship)

There is VERY little difference between both parties. They don't give a damn about everyday Americans.

Gee, we finally agree on something...

 

[TWskyliner]

<_< --- One from USairways should have little to say about integrating work forces! Let's talk about it after the fact, not before.

Come on MCI, don't you recognize sarcasm?

 

[Itestwell]

<_< --- One from USairways should have little to say about integrating work forces! Let's talk about it after the fact, not before.

I was referring to offering DOH. Care to comment?

 

[Barfbag]

Gee, we finally agree on something...

 

[WorldTraveler]

All the bankruptcy theory is great - except AA was one of the first carriers to lower labor rates - even without bankruptcy. Every other carrier that came after AA had to lower the bar even further than what AA did.

Don't right off US pensions - the PBGC has been asked by a group of Senators to consider reinstating US' pensions. And DL and NW employees haven't lost anything - they just won't accumulate anything else - although they will instead get a new defined contribution plan.

Further, by most analyses, AA has the worst employee relations in the airline industry right now. Not sure that AA has such an advantage if they are losing passengers as fast as the complaint e-mails are popping up on internet sites.

 

[nbmcg01]

All the bankruptcy theory is great - except AA was one of the first carriers to lower labor rates - even without bankruptcy. Every other carrier that came after AA had to lower the bar even further than what AA did.

Don't right off US pensions - the PBGC has been asked by a group of Senators to consider reinstating US' pensions. And DL and NW employees haven't lost anything - they just won't accumulate anything else - although they will instead get a new defined contribution plan.

Further, by most analyses, AA has the worst employee relations in the airline industry right now. Not sure that AA has such an advantage if they are losing passengers as fast as the complaint e-mails are popping up on internet sites.

It is a sad commentary on the airline industry when a contract is negotiated "in good faith" and then abrogated whether by bk or by the threat of bk. This allowed practice means that any Co can sign off on just about anything knowing full well that our current Administration and Judicial system will "take care of business". That is where the real question of business ethics arise.

 

[eolesen]

Ah, look who pops up from under a rock the day US pulls its bid for DL...

Further, by most analyses, AA has the worst employee relations in the airline industry right now.

Oh, yes. Things are much more cozy at NWA and UAL.

The only reason things are even slightly better at DAL is because y'all have been too worked up over the hostile takeover attempt.

 

[Itestwell]

All the bankruptcy theory is great - except AA was one of the first carriers to lower labor rates - even without bankruptcy. Every other carrier that came after AA had to lower the bar even further than what AA did.

Don't right off US pensions - the PBGC has been asked by a group of Senators to consider reinstating US' pensions. And DL and NW employees haven't lost anything - they just won't accumulate anything else - although they will instead get a new defined contribution plan.

Further, by most analyses, AA has the worst employee relations in the airline industry right now. Not sure that AA has such an advantage if they are losing passengers as fast as the complaint e-mails are popping up on internet sites.

Oh come on, WT! You promised that US was the worst! You drill it into our heads all the time. You cannot have both, so which is it? US? AA? I'll let you decide, but I reeeeeally hope it's us underpaid, useless US people who will be out of jobs sooner rather than later.... Sigh... you promised....

 

[FWAAA]

All the bankruptcy theory is great - except AA was one of the first carriers to lower labor rates - even without bankruptcy. Every other carrier that came after AA had to lower the bar even further than what AA did.

If you're talking about the B-scale years of the 1980s, then you're almost correct. But if you're talking about post-September 11 wage concessions, then your memory is faulty.

USAir and UAL both filed for Ch 11 protection and secured wage cuts prior to AA's April, 2003 concessions. UAL's were temporary (en route to permanant ones) and USAir had already secured permanent wage cuts. Of course, USAir didn't actually fix their business and went back to do it again.

Don't forget that CO already slashed its employee wages in its earlier two bankruptcies (as did HP in its earlier bankruptcy). Repeating the erroneous claim that "AA employees set tbe bar low and are to blame for low legacy wages" is just a little too simplistic and, of course, not true. You can do better, WT.

Don't right off US pensions - the PBGC has been asked by a group of Senators to consider reinstating US' pensions. And DL and NW employees haven't lost anything - they just won't accumulate anything else - although they will instead get a new defined contribution plan.

Senators talking about re-instating a canceled DB plan? Senators might like everyone to have a pony, but that's not gonna happen either. DL and NW employees didn't lose anything? Are you sure 'bout that? Have you asked the pilots at those two airlines? What about the retired pilots? Are they still getting pension checks in excess of the PBGC max guarantee?

Further, by most analyses, AA has the worst employee relations in the airline industry right now. Not sure that AA has such an advantage if they are losing passengers as fast as the complaint e-mails are popping up on internet sites.

Don't you worry your pretty little head about AA, WT. AMR's revenue ballooned last year and is still growing this year. Complaints by alleged passengers (most of whom claim they'll never fly the airline ever again) on internet sites don't matter. Revenue matters.