No to the Alliance!

[Buck]

I apologize buddy but I still don't see your point. I have yet to see any case on the NMB archives where a ballot only indicated "yes or no". The NMB manual makes it very clear that IF given a ballot other choices exist. This paste along with your Q&A post perpetuate the ideas being spun by the TWBoo campaign. Read the material again and you'll find references to 'most likely', 'a goal is', 'no plan to', which mean they might or might not. Or the phrase 'have agreed to' which pretty much means done without your say. And when an indication is given that the membership will have a say in a matter, we need ask when? When the full context of a T/A has been established and we must decide on the package as a whole and take the bad with the good? Another opinion by many of which I agree is the insistance that we will be given a vote. The feeling by many I've spoken with is that this is just being put out to have a percentage of the membership let their guard down regarding signing any cards and then in 30 days the NMB will just bless the Association since we were unsuccessful in putting together a challenge. On that note you will have the influence to give us the result we need because it will either live or die in TUL.

The point is to get as much information out to those that are asking questions, but fail to show enough interest to help make the change. It is these references to the,  If's, most likely, a goal is, no plan to etc.. that I hope the membership takes the time to see or read. This has always been the way of the TWU, the no real answer method. 

 

[1AA]

Here is a screen shot of the Q & A about the Alliance released by the union or unions.
Question 5. We will see if we will get screwed again.

 

[swamt]

Q and A's mean absolutely NOTHING.  Write the union(s) like I have suggested from the very get go and tell them you want the answer to your question on letter head from the union(s) and signed by every officer of the union.  Then see where that will get you. You will never get the same answer as in this Q & A I can promise you that. They will not back it up because there will not be a vote UNLESS another union shows enough interest just like the NMB said so. They (the 2 unions involved) will lead the membership on saying there will be a vote so that all the fence sitters will not sign cards "THINKING" there will be a vote either way. NOT going to happen per the NMB as they wrote in their ruling.  Get a clue folks, wake up and smell the the BS.  How much longer will you guys put up with this $hit?  Sign a card and let the membership decide who the heck will represent you guys, do not get forced into something that will affect all of you for the rest of all your careers, get involved gentlemen, get involved, be apart of the change not part of the LAZY problem...

 

[Hackman]

Keep begging for cards from the 10 mechanics that read this board.
 
You havent been able to do it in 50 years, and in the last year.
 
You know what the definition of insanity is?
 
Doing the same behavior over and over and expecting different results.

You keep trying to stay relevant in the airline industry you admittedly no longer work in with 31000+ posts
of nonsensical Iam Industrial Union drivel that no one is interested in. As the Industrial Unions flat line
and are being attacked from every angle with Right to Work, yet you sit here day after day posting on AMT subjects
you have no business in, is that the definition of YOUR insanity? The Iam should do something more productive with it's
waning organizing dollar.

How's that Delta F/A organizing drive going? Failed again you say? Hmm, I guess the Iam didn't pay you enough
in cash, booze, and street walkers to make it over the hump at Delta. Your constant posting of Iam Delta pics
and slogans failed. Didn't even get to file the cards with the NMB...how tragic for the few Iam faithful and
its paid organizers like yourself.

AMFA at AA at least filed with the NMB in 2005 with unpaid organizers, and because of fraud, were unsuccessful. I think it will happen again soon,
especially if the "Association" is forced on us along with the Iam's broke pension fund. It will a mob with torches
and pitchforks from down deep if they attempt to force it on us.

How about the Iam? Will they file with ANY AMTs at any airline ever again? Even a card drive? Not a snowballs
chance in Iam hell with a major airline.

Now return to Flacid Harbor and tell them you failed...maybe ask for a raise.

 

[Buck]

On Thursday, 23 April 2015 at 11:00 am until 1:30 pm , in Tulsa, the Schedulers that have been placed in the Mechanic Craft and Class will have their NMB  meeting. 

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

 
Hey 700UW, did you sign some sort of agreement with the devil?  There is nothing beneficial to the AMTs at AA by allowing this unholy association of the TWU & IAM to become a reality.  You are one sick SOB.  Karma will catch up with you! 

 
He probably does not know what karma is. Maybe he should watch this "instructional" video. 

 

[MetalMover]

I kind of believe anything from the Association/TWU/IAM about getting a vote to the membership is purely a smokescreen to give the appearance of a democratic process. When the NMB decides the Ass is certified without any vote they will simply shrug their shoulders and say we didn't decide and we wanted to give you a vote.

Oh yea, they claimed all along there will be a vote, nut I have a funny feeling that there will be a vote only if they get a showing of interest by another union within 30 days.
The the TWU/IAM will claim, "well, uh ya know, the NMB, ruled, ahem, ya know,,,er...there won't be a vote,,,ahem uh duh,,,"
 
What kills me here is that even if one supports this association, why would you not want a vote? 

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Before anyone repeats what the TWU says,  Check with independent sources as to the truth about it. History has proven that the TWU puts out misinformation for personal reasons.  
First double check the statement" that you will lose your representation if you sign a card and vote".
 
Fact:   NOT TRUE,  our contract is only ammendadable as per law, it does not expire. you will not lose any representation!

 

[WeAAsles]

Before anyone repeats what the TWU says,  Check with independent sources as to the truth about it. History has proven that the TWU puts out misinformation for personal reasons.  
First double check the statement" that you will lose your representation if you sign a card and vote".
 
Fact:   NOT TRUE,  our contract is only ammendadable as per law, it does not expire. you will not lose any representation!

If you receive a ballot and the choices are:

Association:
Whoever:
No Union:
Write in option:

Any choice you make besides No Union will see your current CBA's continue. That would be your TWU and IAM contracts. There however is no language in the Maintenance IAM CBA as to what happens to the contributions being made to the IAMPF? That is a fact although many like to argue on here about it. The IAMPF would no longer be required to accept any further contributions into the plan if they were no longer the CBA Agent or administrator. In Fleet there is language that those funds would be set up into a 401k. In Maintenance there is no language.

Now some people are trying to sell a bald faced lie that if you vote No Union you will still have a CBA and not become an At Will employee that the company can impose any pay and work rules on you that they want. This paragraph and link proves emphatically how much of a lie that is. 

"I know you have questions about what happens next. We are ready to begin the process of aligning pay, benefits and work rules, and producing a single seniority list as quickly as possible," said Gil West, senior vice president – Airport Customer Service, in a memo to employees. "The actual date when we can begin this transition will largely depend on whether the IAM respects your decision or chooses to file interference claims. We believe the IAM has no basis for filing interference, but if they do, we will not be in a position to align pay, benefits and work rules until the final resolution of representation is achieved. I know you're ready to move forward and we are urging the IAM to respect your choice."

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/seventh-delta-workgroup-resolves-union-representation-iam-rejected-109016269.html

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

If you receive a ballot and the choices are:

Association:
Whoever:
No Union:
Write in option:

Any choice you make besides No Union will see your current CBA's continue. That would be your TWU and IAM contracts. There however is no language in the Maintenance IAM CBA as to what happens to the contributions being made to the IAMPF? That is a fact although many like to argue on here about it. The IAMPF would no longer be required to accept any further contributions into the plan if they were no longer the CBA Agent or administrator. In Fleet there is language that those funds would be set up into a 401k. In Maintenance there is no language.

Now some people are trying to sell a bald faced lie that if you vote No Union you will still have a CBA and not become an At Will employee that the company can impose any pay and work rules on you that they want. This paragraph and link proves emphatically how much of a lie that is. 

"I know you have questions about what happens next. We are ready to begin the process of aligning pay, benefits and work rules, and producing a single seniority list as quickly as possible," said Gil West, senior vice president – Airport Customer Service, in a memo to employees. "The actual date when we can begin this transition will largely depend on whether the IAM respects your decision or chooses to file interference claims. We believe the IAM has no basis for filing interference, but if they do, we will not be in a position to align pay, benefits and work rules until the final resolution of representation is achieved. I know you're ready to move forward and we are urging the IAM to respect your choice."

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/seventh-delta-workgroup-resolves-union-representation-iam-rejected-109016269.html

 
WeAAsles
 
With just these two statements that I have here highlighted the more reason Maintenance should NOT have anything to do with the IAMNPF or the IAM.
 
The fact that the IAM would not insure that every employee who is in the IAMNPF would be protected and that that did not happen shows us the mechanics that what we have said about the industrial unions not caring about the maintenance workers has been correct all along.
 
Since the IAMNPF is a multi company fund why would the IAM stop taking money into that fund which would hurt the Fleet workers since that would reduce the total assets of the fund.
Many companies are withdrawing from these types of pensions and going to 401k's.
 
Are you and the IAM saying that it would punish the entire pension just to spite the few USAirways guys from maintenance that left the fund. That would or should show the rest of the pension holders just how controlling and wrong this is to a part of that wouldn't you think?
 
That is also a reason why we the AA employees should NOT get involved with that fund either.

 

[700UW]

This issue was already covered during the IBT raid at US.
 
The pension issued a statement and went around the system with road shows.
 
If the Mechanic and Related at US voted out the IAM and voted in the IBT, the pension would no longer accept contributions on behalf of the mechanic and related and their IAMNPF would have been frozen.
 
Statement of fact and law.
 
And US contributions for Fleet has nothing to do with Maintenance and vice versa.  The company makes contributions to the plan on behalf of member.
 
Fleet has been in the IAMNPF longer than Maintenance.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

This issue was already covered during the IBT raid at US.
 
The pension issued a statement and went around the system with road shows.
 
If the Mechanic and Related at US voted out the IAM and voted in the IBT, the pension would no longer accept contributions on behalf of the mechanic and related and their IAMNPF would have been frozen.
 
Statement of fact and law.
 
And US contributions for Fleet has nothing to do with Maintenance and vice versa.  The company makes contributions to the plan on behalf of member.
 
Fleet has been in the IAMNPF longer than Maintenance.

 
700UW
 
Question?  Didn't the IAM tell the mechanics that if they voted out the IAM that they would loose the pension? So what we the AA guys were saying if they voted in AMFA when we were collecting cards that they would not loose it was correct it would just be frozen. Y or N?
Can't be good for the IBT and Not AMFA correct?
 
We all assume that each person has a individual fund in the pension plan, so if the mechanics left it would NOT effect the fund at all is that correct? Since fleet and maint have nothing to do with the other per your last quote?

 

[WeAAsles]

 
WeAAsles
 
With just these two statements that I have here highlighted the more reason Maintenance should NOT have anything to do with the IAMNPF or the IAM.
 
The fact that the IAM would not insure that every employee who is in the IAMNPF would be protected and that that did not happen shows us the mechanics that what we have said about the industrial unions not caring about the maintenance workers has been correct all along.
 
Since the IAMNPF is a multi company fund why would the IAM stop taking money into that fund which would hurt the Fleet workers since that would reduce the total assets of the fund.
Many companies are withdrawing from these types of pensions and going to 401k's.
 
Are you and the IAM saying that it would punish the entire pension just to spite the few USAirways guys from maintenance that left the fund. That would or should show the rest of the pension holders just how controlling and wrong this is to a part of that wouldn't you think?
 
That is also a reason why we the AA employees should NOT get involved with that fund either.

Think about it this way. We have a 401k and there are fees associated with that to manage your assets. The IAMPF through the dues collected is part of basically the fees to manage the fund. If there were no fees collected to manage those assets anymore why would they continue to collect any monies into it? It does cost money to manage assets.

Yes the accumulations would be frozen and can be collected in the future under the plan terms. Of course the IAMPF could continue to keep individuals into the fund if that was what they chose and agreed to (The Company would have a say in that as well) but again I'm sure an agreement would need to be made that the individuals still participating in it would have to pay a management cost. 

This entire conversation though is more than likely irrelevant since you know how I feel what is going to come down in the future though anyway. (No question mark needed)

 

[700UW]

 
700UW
 
Question?  Didn't the IAM tell the mechanics that if they voted out the IAM that they would loose the pension? So what we the AA guys were saying if they voted in AMFA when we were collecting cards that they would not loose it was correct it would just be frozen. Y or N?
Can't be good for the IBT and Not AMFA correct?
 
We all assume that each person has a individual fund in the pension plan, so if the mechanics left it would NOT effect the fund at all is that correct? Since fleet and maint have nothing to do with the other per your last quote?

They would lose future contributions, and they would be frozen the day the IAM loses the certification.
 
Its a multi-employer plan, each person has what was paid in for them, and what benefits they have accrued.
 
Fleet had their schedule A rates reduced, that did not effect maintenance at all, each group has it in their CBA, and terms vary.

 

[TWU informer]

[SIZE=medium]Why do I continue to ask you to sign an AMFA card and support having an election?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]We are going to get new representation like it or not. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]The NMB has been asked by both the TWU and the IAM to certify new representation. While doing so they have politically maneuvered to attempt to get either a certification without a vote, or a vote that only give you a choice of the TWU/IAM Association or No Union, as if that is really a legitimate choice or fair to you the member. And TWU and the IAM has used money from your dues to politically maneuver this issue to insure what they think is best for you is your only choice. This is wrong, it is indication of a weak union, an organization that fears the membership does not support them.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium] How strong can your union really be if they exist only by avoiding a true vote of the membership? When your negotiators sit across from management at the table, the company needs to know that the majority of the membership supports them and has their back. For years now the company has known that we keep signing the cards to remove the TWU and we are denied an election. The company doesn’t love the TWU, the company loves knowing that the TWU is only at the table by avoiding a direct vote of the membership. That isn’t a union with any backbone or real ability to fight. That is a union that is weak, operates in fear, and is only on the property by some miscarriage of justice, or some illegitimate politically wrangling.  We need a union that the membership, the company, and the public have no doubt that the majority supports.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Even if you support the TWU/IAM Association, sign the card to guarantee a proper election. If the Association is the majority choice, then we can rally behind that choice and stop the constant attempts to verify who and what the membership wants to support. If there is a proper election and the Association wins, then I commit myself to stop pursuit of union change. If any of you believe that we can support and have unified strength by either certification without an election or an election that forces us to accept the Association or NO Union, you are sadly mistaken and your representation will remain divided and weak.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] All I ask is that you help us all to insure that we put this dispute to bed once and for all, by having an election and vote after a real debate of the choices and a legitimate vote. Only then will the company garner respect for your union and only then will your membership rally behind your leaders.[/SIZE]