No new China, what next?

[Hunter]

Sadly, it is not that simple. [...]

Baltimore, Denver, or Phoenix are not Bermuda II cities. They are allowed Heathrow flights under a special exemption.

I am not familar with Bermuda II and all the regulations associated with it, but prior to Icahn's sale of TWA LHR authority to AA for $500 million, TWA flew both PHL and BWI to LHR.

 

[BuffaloJoe]

I am not familar with Bermuda II and all the regulations associated with it, but prior to Icahn's sale of TWA LHR authority to AA for $500 million, TWA flew both PHL and BWI to LHR.

So if AA isn't flying the PHL-LHR, then UA can fly the route, pending they have a slot at LHR for it, Am I correct? Or can they both fly the route, UA and AA?

 

[s80dude]

Another thing to consider is that within the next few years, as A/C technology improves and planes can fly farther and do it more economically, the need for 5th freedom rights to Japan will be less important. You are already seeing this with USA nonstops to Singapore, Thailand, etc. These routes normally require a transit stop, but SQ and TG are now running nonstops.

Would AA be wise to shell out money for NW's NRT hub, when in a few years there will be A/C on the market that can overfly Japan directly to the destination country?

 

[Barfbag]

What on earth does my previous quote about moving flights from PHL and EWR to JFK quote have to do with China?

My point exactly; the original thread is about China.

 

[TWAnr]

I am not familar with Bermuda II and all the regulations associated with it, but prior to Icahn's sale of TWA LHR authority to AA for $500 million, TWA flew both PHL and BWI to LHR.

The government did not approve the sale of the BWI and PHL to LHR routes (as well as the STL to LGW route) as a part of that sale. AA ended paying $500 million for JFK, ORD and LAX to LHR. Icahn then sold the BWI and PHL route authorities to US Air (which had to fly into LGW) and TW kept flying from STL to LGW.

 

[FA Mikey]

We did for a time fly PHL-LHR.

 

[TWAnr]

We did for a time fly PHL-LHR.

When was that? Was it after US Air started code sharing with British Air and stopped flying to London from PHL and BWI?

 

[StraaightTaalk]

When was that? Was it after US Air started code sharing with British Air and stopped flying to London from PHL and BWI?

You need to read this thread in its entirety. This has already been addressed.

 

[AMFAMAN]

We did for a time fly PHL-LHR.

Yeah, but that was as a result of USAIR and BA hooking up back then on a codeshare and being forced to give up the PHL-LGW route. AA won the route and flew it LHR, but the route actually went RDU-PHL-LHR. Back when RDU was a hub...

 

[StraaightTaalk]

We already tried that back in 1994-1995. Very low yields. We didn't attract the premium traffic in the market, and the Premium cabins went empty. Coach was full in high season, but the fares were too low.

The crewing costs were very high also as they had to schedule it as a "double crossing," though, if the yields had been high enough, the extra costs would have been easily absorbed.

 

[TWAnr]

The government did not approve the sale of the BWI and PHL to LHR routes (as well as the STL to LGW route) as a part of that sale. AA ended paying $500 million for JFK, ORD and LAX to LHR. Icahn then sold the BWI and PHL route authorities to US Air (which had to fly into LGW) and TW kept flying from STL to LGW.

Well, my memory was a bit off. I have done some additional checking. The ORD-London route authority sale preceded the JFK, BOS (which I previously left out) and LAX sale. But I was right on BWI and PHL.

May 1, 1992 Carl Icahn sells TWA's route authorities from Philadelphia and Baltimore to London to USAir for $50 million. TWA retains St. Louis-London route.

Scripophily.com

 

[eolesen]

AA won the route and flew it LHR, but the route actually went RDU-PHL-LHR.

That was actually one of my project assignments in TTS...

AA started up RDU-LGW, BNA-LGW, and PHL-LHR all at the same time (if not the same day) in 1994. We called these The Three Little Pigs. I know it was discussed, but I don't think the RDU-PHL-LHR routing ever came to fruition. AA wanted to be able to do a quick turn at PHL on the return, and let LHR-RDU pax remain onboard to clear customs at RDU. That never flew with Customs, so Capacity Planning gave up the idea.

AA138 BNALGW and AA006 PHLLHR were both gone by Sept 1995.

AA174 RDULGW surprised everyone, and still is said to do pretty well in the premium cabins due to all the traffic heading in and out of the Research Triangle.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Another thing to consider is that within the next few years, as A/C technology improves and planes can fly farther and do it more economically, the need for 5th freedom rights to Japan will be less important. You are already seeing this with USA nonstops to Singapore, Thailand, etc. These routes normally require a transit stop, but SQ and TG are now running nonstops.

Would AA be wise to shell out money for NW's NRT hub, when in a few years there will be A/C on the market that can overfly Japan directly to the destination country?

The only caveat to that is that NW is a major 787 customer and will have the aircraft to overfly NRT in less than 2 years.

AA's biggest obstacle to ANY growth is its industry high debt and labor cost levels. Until AA addresses both of those issues, AA isn't going to be able to do much in the area of mergers/asset acquisitions.

Also, AA's reputation of dismantling its acquisitions will be a major concern if an AA-NW merger ever occurs. NW is a major economic force in MI and MN and politicians from those states aren't going to accept the possibility of AA dismantling one of those hubs. And AA surely doesn't need 2 more midwest hubs to add to its current collection.