no more jumpseats for SWA

[corl737]

If you take a look at my user name I am ramper in las. If you actually work in the industry you would understand what kind of rat I am.

Yeah, he'd know that you regularly work a heck of a lot harder than pilots do, especially as a SWA ramper!

It's been said that while rampers earn their money every day, pilots earn their money in chunks. Usually our job is rather mundane and we're arguably overpaid for those times. However, when it suddenly "hits the fan" there's little doubting that we're significantly underpaid for that day. In the span of a career it all evens out pretty well.

 

[ClueByFour]

If they want to go to to SYD, SGN or HKG where I tend to see them most, then they can cough up the several grand it would take to buy a first or Business class ticket.

Unlike the UAL pilot flying the widebody, the LUV captain can afford the business class ticket.

You realize, of course, that even if the NYT did get this quote from Hefner (which I doubt) that you have personified the legacy pilot to which the quote refers to a "T." Well played.

 

[mga707]

Unlike the UAL pilot flying the widebody, the LUV captain can afford the business class ticket.

You realize, of course, that even if the NYT did get this quote from Hefner (which I doubt) that you have personified the legacy pilot to which the quote refers to a "T." Well played.

My point EXACTLY!
...I'll betcha Capt. Batootie(tm) is a real cheapskate penny-pincher to boot. Just to complete the pilot stereotype...

 

[mrman]

I am printing what you just wrote and will hand it to any SWA pilot that tries to jumpseat on my carrier. So to all the SWA pilots you can thank this guy and Hefner for the opportunity to take the next flight

tattle tale, you sound like my two year old

 

[magsau]

Unlike the UAL pilot flying the widebody, the LUV captain can afford the business class ticket.

Again I will be sure and remind the SWA pilot that tries to free load on a flight to Asia or Europe that they have the financial wherewithall to not have to ask a "spoiled" legacy pilot for a jumpseat. In fact I will even be so kind as to point him or her in the direction of the nearest ticket counter so as to fully accomodate their wealth in right fashion. Of course if I made as much as a SWA pilot I would just charter my own private jet for such a jaunt. No use slumming on the legacy carriers.

 

[magsau]

Actually I'd appreciate Magsau denying the jumpseat to me and using this as the reason.

Well Corl I probably would not be the only UAL pilot to tell you to go pound sand when asking for a ride. However, I do hope we get a chance to meet. If at all possible I hope it is in SYD, SGN or some other far flung place with one or two flights a day. With any luck the big mouths at SWA will cost you another day on the road trying to get home.

 

[corl737]

Well Corl I probably would not be the only UAL pilot to tell you to go pound sand when asking for a ride.

That would be helpful. If the pilot was truly that incapable of handling this apparent insult to their ego I'd be afraid to ride in the same airplane with them. Their denial of my request would be appreciated.

Jumping to villify a fellow pilot without any more than speculative assertions that he actually made those comments and they weren't presented out of context is purely a demonstration that their meaning, at least when addressing your personal behavior, was right on the spot regardless of their source. Rather than "defending your profession" it sounds more like you are "defending your sandbox".

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NOTE TO MODERATOR: In the context of this discussion my comments regarding Magsau are not personal attacks but rather the consensus opinion of many professional pilots (employed by several different airlines) that I have talked to regarding the tone of Magsau's messages. You can delete this if you wish, but believe me, I'm not throwing darts solo.

 

[magsau]

Jumping to villify a fellow pilot without any more than speculative assertions that he actually made those comments and they weren't presented out of context is purely a demonstration that their meaning, at least when addressing your personal behavior, was right on the spot regardless of their source. Rather than "defending your profession" it sounds more like you are "defending your sandbox".

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Corl,

So you have discussed my asessment of how to deal with future SWA OMC's with all people in the industry? Interesting I missed the survey. On my trip last week one of the co-pilots brought up the Hefnergate issue. I mentioned the bozo that chose to posted negative UAL stuff on the airliners.net site and the other two f/o's joined in the lively debate about SWA and the attitude and ego's that live in the little 37. Small plane, big watch and big ego's I suppose.

Like I said before, I have gone out of my way to help SWA pilots when the OMC with us. I move them to F or C if available and work with the local agents in the foreign stations to help get them onboard. Just tired of listening to you guys make a**es out of yourself. The old guard SWA pilot is much different than this recent group of whackos. If you want to join the brotherhood then get on the ALPA bus. No dues, No news.

 

[ClueByFour]

If you want to join the brotherhood then get on the ALPA bus. No dues, No news.

Riight. Throwing the younglings under the bus, greedy scope moves that ended up seeing everything up to and including 90 seaters at many majors flown by contract carriers, and concessions by every "big iron" flying ALPA carrier except FEDEX.

Why in their right mind would SWAPA want to shoot themselves in the proverbial rear and go ALPA?

 

[corl737]

So you have discussed my asessment of how to deal with future SWA OMC's with all people in the industry? Interesting I missed the survey.

I would have sent you a survey if I knew who you were. I have discussed the attitude and threats you wrote with other industry pilots (including some from DL, NW, CO, AA, B6, and UA) and the vast majority said they felt your sweeping vindictiveness and punitive plan was a cancererous action that was not in the best interest of the profession.

We all agree that the phrases stated in the newspaper article are also cancerous and need to be addressed accurately and swiftly. The difference between the two situations is that you have no proof that the person you accuse of making the published statements actually did so. You, on the other hand, need to continue to hide behind your moniker for protection because there is no doubt where your comments originated. As they say, "we have witnesses!"

Really, Magsau, the problem we have with you is your unwillingness to exercise any measure of self control and allow a fellow pilot the opportunity to defend himself against a questionable opponent... be it in the newspaper or any other act to which you singlehandedly deem to be beneath your standards. You are quick to try, judge, and execute, even without facts.

The old guard SWA pilot is much different than this recent group of whackos.

I started my SWA career flying in Dallas. Yes, the early group certainly deserves a lot of credit for building SWA to what it has become. They are a class act that knew the virtue of standing up for their employer when it was under attack.

Oh yeah, I forgot! That's the same group that ALPA and the Legacy Pilots tore into for "bringing the industry down" and "selling their souls". Guess it really is easier to give than to receive.

If you want to join the brotherhood then get on the ALPA bus.

Interesting choice of phraseology. Perhaps you've subconsciously conceded that ALPA has taken its members out of Airplanes and given them buses?

Recall that SWAPA did NOT negotiate an industry leading contract in 1994 (the date of the current agreement). Alas, the ALPA-dominated industry self-destructed around us.

-----------------------------------

I wish nothing but the best for the industry's truly professional pilots (you know if you're one of them) no matter who you work for. I honestly feel compassion for the difficult times many of you have had to endure: cuts in compensation or even furloughs. It's a business cycle that had a far-deeper-than-normal and very painful valley. I also know that my time in the barrel will probably be around the corner.

It's just not right for a 737 driver to be anywhere near the top of the industry scales and I hope that you are all able to pull yourselves back up soon. We've been where you are now as recently as '99 (the last year of our 5-year pay freeze) and we know it isn't nearly as enjoyable a lifestyle.

As for any further discussion with Magsau, I have just one last question... If you believe your vindictive posturing is "the right thing to do" why didn't you announce your intention to invoke this plan to your coworkers on the United Airlines forum? With only 36% of your total messages being posted to your "home" forum, perhaps they've tired of conversing with you just as we have? By my looking, your last post on the UAL forum was on March 4th, almost two weeks ago -- and typically, that was a single line written to invoke criticism of your self-derived perception of the Southwest Airlines mentality.

Magsau (or whoever you are), I'll close our discussion with this line from Jo Dee Messina:

"My give a damn's busted!"


NOTE to moderators:

Thanks for putting this forum together. Regretfully, the participation of individuals who hijack your asset for the sole purpose of distributing hate and discontent is annoying at best and most often repulsive. I no longer have the time, nor the will to deal with antagonistic flame-throwers such as Magsau so I'll be changing frequencies and heading to a different sector for good.

I wish you luck in your continuing operations.

OUT.

 

[tulswa]

magsau,

Again, Hefner has denied making the comments. Personally, if I have to choose who to believe between a NYT writer and almost anyone else, the NYT looses almost every time. If you want to believe that he did make the comments, fine. He is not an elected representative of SWA Pilots (his position is an appointed one). If you wish to punish 4800+ for the comments made by one, that is a decision only you can make.

Happy Trails

 

[magsau]

magsau,

If you wish to punish 4800+ for the comments made by one, that is a decision only you can make.

Happy Trails

Tulsa,

It is not just Hefner. It is him, the guy with the yoyo webblog and dyed hair and the best hand flown ILS's in x-winds that show a trend. A trend that the SWA pilots have no ability to keep their mouths shut. This is enough for me to say NO.

I talked to a guy in LAX recently that said a SWA Capt. turned him down for the jumpseat. Last flight of the night and the Captain told the United guy he did not take UAL. Well fine. Unless this Captain was Hefner that is 3 strikes and your out.

 

[tulswa]

Tulsa,

It is not just Hefner. It is him, the guy with the yoyo webblog and dyed hair and the best hand flown ILS's in x-winds that show a trend. A trend that the SWA pilots have no ability to keep their mouths shut. This is enough for me to say NO.

I talked to a guy in LAX recently that said a SWA Capt. turned him down for the jumpseat. Last flight of the night and the Captain told the United guy he did not take UAL. Well fine. Unless this Captain was Hefner that is 3 strikes and your out.

Magsau

Two things are obvious. First, your general assessment and knowledge of SWA pilots is way off. Do we have our share of tools? Yes, as does every carrier. SWA is fortunate to have pilots that previously worked at pretty much every other carrier in existence, and most are very aware of the fortunate employment circumstances that they find themselves in. Hopefully, we police ourselves sufficiently when one of our own gets a little too full of the success that they may or may not have contributed to. We could go back and forth all day with stories of a pilot at airline X treating one of "our" guys/girls poorly. I think passing judgement on antire group based upon the actions of a statistically insignificant few is a poor choice.

Second, it is apparent that you contantly search for anything negative to hold against the SWA pilots. We are far from perfect, but nowhere near the menace to society that you seem to perceive. Your opinion of SWA seems to border on hatred. I do not expect everyone to love SWA the way its employess do. In the past five years SWA has had more flights observed by FAA inspectors than any other major, either by shear number or by percentage of flights. More involvement by NASA in the development and monitoring of policies and procedures than any other carrier in the world. Most of our captains gladly gave jumpseats to pilots legacy carriers that, at the time, did not reciprocate (due to their management, not their pilots). I apologize for, and am ashamed of any SWA pilots that acted inappropriately or made stupid comments while jumpseating. I wish that you could walk a mile in my shoes to see what SWA is really all about.

 

[FWAAA]

True professionals would never deny thousands of jumpseats to thousands of pilots because of the comments of one pilot (even if he did make the statements - which I doubt he made). Denying all WN pilots a jumpseat just smacks of third-grade behavior and not the adult judgment of a true professional.

Isn't jumpseat denial the punishment for crossing a picket line? Are the comments of one employee (assuming they were even made) equal to performing struck work? Not in my book.

 

[phasersonstun2]

Grow the **** up, you guys. Times must be too goodfor some of us to use the J as a battle ground. Unbelievable.