No Leaves for F/A's

[AAStew]

I just received an HI6 message announcing no leaves will be available next year. This includes ELOA/PLOA. The announcement said that flying was going to increase. We also received a warning e-mail to plan accordingly on INTL as we will be doing quite a bit of military flying at the end of the month and they forsee more coming up.
What's up with this? Anyone know? If they forsee flying increasing, why no announcements? And why a "plan accordingly" about the military flying?
Any thoughts or facts out there? This is strange even for AA!

AS YOU KNOW, PROFFERS FOR PLOAS (JAN-APR) AND SPRING ELOAS ARE NORM
NORMALLY ANNOUNCED IN NOVEMBER OF THE PREVIOUS YEAR. .
. REGR
REGRETTABLY, WE ARE UNABLE TO OFFER SPRING PLOAS AND ELOAS FOR 2006
2006. WE ARE EXPECTING AN INCREASE IN OUR 2006 FLIGHT SCHE
SCHEDULE. AS A RESULT, THE OPERATING PLAN FOR THAT YEAR DOES NOT
NOT PROVIDE ADDITIONAL STAFFING OVERAGE THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO OFFE
OFFER LONG TERM LEAVES SUCH AS PLOA AND ELOA. .
. DURI
DURING 2006, WE WILL REVIEW OUR OPERATING PLAN FOR SUMMER/FALL PLOA
PLOAS AND FALL 2006 ELOAS. IF WE ARE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE THES
THESE LONG-TERM LEAVES, WE WILL POST A PROFFER. .
. FLIG
FLIGHT SERVICE / CREW RESOURCES 17NOV05 ¥

This is the actual announcement


17NOV05/1140
ALL INTERNATIONAL BASED FLIGHT ATTENDANTS
PLEASE BE ADVISED THAT AA EXPECTS TO OPERATE 777 EQUIPMENT
INTERNATIONAL MILITARY MISSIONS LATER THIS MONTH. WE ARE
ALSO PURSUING ADDITIONAL 777 EQUIPMENT MISSIONS IN THE FIRST
HALF OF DECEMBER. PLEASE PLAN ACCORDINGLY.
CREW SCHEDULE

 

[s80dude]

I thought our 777 fleet was pretty tightly utilized with the new flights to KIX and DEL. How do we have extras to start flying military charters again? Are some markets losing 777 service?

I think the sign that no ELOAS and PLOAS are being offered is a pretty good sign that the company is starting to run out of options as far as recalls. If attrition keeps up, I think a recall sometime early next year will certainly happen.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I thought our 777 fleet was pretty tightly utilized with the new flights to KIX and DEL. How do we have extras to start flying military charters again? Are some markets losing 777 service?

I think the sign that no ELOAS and PLOAS are being offered is a pretty good sign that the company is starting to run out of options as far as recalls. If attrition keeps up, I think a recall sometime early next year will certainly happen.

========================================================

Military flying ?? WOW !!

"Betcha" a lot of people who voted for the lil' texas TURD, and "CHENEY the LIAR", are FINALLY realizing that the IRAQ war was a ****ing SCAM, and the military flying will be to go over, and pick up the BRAVE troops.

(Beside the full time troops), you know, the NATIONAL GUARD folks, (shoe salesmen, single moms) who've been FORCED to stay over in that #### HOLE !!!!!!!!!


AFGANISTAN, is a WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL-GAME !!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[Ch. 12]

========================================================

Military flying ?? WOW !!

"Betcha" a lot of people who voted for the lil' texas TURD, and "CHENEY the LIAR", are FINALLY realizing that the IRAQ war was a ****ing SCAM, and the military flying will be to go over, and pick up the BRAVE troops.

(Beside the full time troops), you know, the NATIONAL GUARD folks, (shoe salesmen, single moms) who've been FORCED to stay over in that #### HOLE !!!!!!!!!
AFGANISTAN, is a WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL-GAME !!!!!

NH/BB's

Sadly, the loads are ligher coming back.

 

[AAStew]

How do you really feel NHBB?
We have been doing some military flying out of JFK recently. Transporting over to their pick up points in Europe. They have been placing it in opentime as opposed to calling people out. Next month is one of our busiest months. To ice the cake, at JFK many F/A's (senior ones)who have not been on reserve for a while, are back on reserve, at Christmas at that. These are 17 years seniority or so. My prediction is option 2 will be open most of the month. As I ecpect doing the reserve thing with your children in another state during Christmas, with our whacked out system, just ain't gonna cut it for these girls and guys.
Go ahead....

 

[jimntx]

I thought our 777 fleet was pretty tightly utilized with the new flights to KIX and DEL. How do we have extras to start flying military charters again? Are some markets losing 777 service?

I think the sign that no ELOAS and PLOAS are being offered is a pretty good sign that the company is starting to run out of options as far as recalls. If attrition keeps up, I think a recall sometime early next year will certainly happen.

Agreed. There is no indication that attrition is slowing down. In fact, if some of the rumbling I am hearing is anything more than galley gossip, the attrition rate may increase. I have talked with several 10-20 year f/as recently who say that they are on the verge of chucking it. The lines are not getting any prettier, and people with 15+ years are just tired of having to serve reserve--even if it is only 3 times a year.

In addition, almost no one who has less than 25 years believes that they will eventually collect a pension from AA. I think everyone is resigned to the fact that the company will have to discard the pensions to remain competitive--since so many others have done so in bankruptcy.

 

[AAStew]

I have never really expected much in the way of pension, as we weren't offered much. I now expect nothing. I am at 15 years seniority and only fly what I have to, to keep my insurance benefits. I would leave in a New York minute if it weren't for those. The flying benefits were an attraction at the beginning, but after seeing my deductions for flying thru LHR two weeks ago plus the Zed fares to get to BCN, I could of gotten a positive space ticket for $60 more round trip with advance purchase.
I can't believe there are people who are applying to work for this job at 16k a year. You can collect food stamps in New York with that amount.

 

[jimntx]

I can't believe there are people who are applying to work for this job at 16k a year.

Well, it's the glamor, don't you know!

 

[s80dude]

Well, if you have any of that glamour left over, send some my way to DFW. I am still waiting...

 

[czerny]

Well, if you have any of that glamour left over, send some my way to DFW. I am still waiting...

So, Jim, I got the computerized phonecall from UAL yesterday to email my information. Should I sit tight and wait for Spring? I understand that my class and the one before(2001-06,97) left "hanging out there", waiting since July 2003, are going to go through a 3 week refresher? If that is the case, for us to start flying and help you guys out, we need to have our letters by late January/early Feb for a 30 day notice, go through 3 weeks refresher, and report to base in March. Oui? Also, is United's hourly pay $15.00 an hr or $17.00 an hr? I get two different numbers from 2 different sources.

czerny.

 

[jimntx]

So, Jim, I got the computerized phonecall from UAL yesterday to email my information. Should I sit tight and wait for Spring? I understand that my class and the one before(2001-06,97) left "hanging out there", waiting since July 2003, are going to go through a 3 week refresher? If that is the case, for us to start flying and help you guys out, we need to have our letters by late January/early Feb for a 30 day notice, go through 3 weeks refresher, and report to base in March. Oui? Also, is United's hourly pay $15.00 an hr or $17.00 an hr? I get two different numbers from 2 different sources.

czerny.

It's getting crazier by the minute. A month ago I would have told you to blow off United because a recall to AA was imminent. Now, who knows?

At this point, unless United says that you have to resign from AA just to go to training, I would recommend that you follow up on their invitation. We should know by February (March at the latest) if another recall is going to happen before June.

However, that being said...
As I understand it, United is offering a starting pay of approx. $16,000/yr. The article posted on the October Attrition thread said that was based on a 75hr monthly guarantee. That would make the starting pay $17.78/hr. Isn't that about what you make at AE now?

I don't know what opportunities they have for picking up extra flying. I gather from what I am reading that the current UAL flight attendants are having to fly extra to make up for the pay cuts they have taken.

For more info see October Attrition

 

[Oneflyer]

In addition, almost no one who has less than 25 years believes that they will eventually collect a pension from AA. I think everyone is resigned to the fact that the company will have to discard the pensions to remain competitive--since so many others have done so in bankruptcy.

The amount of wide spread ignorance about pensions among F/A is pretty incredible. Your pension is guaranteed up to a yearly maximum. Guess what? Most F/As yearly pension payments don't excede the maxmimum. At worst, you'd get 80-90%.

 

[Bear96]

The amount of wide spread ignorance about pensions among F/A is pretty incredible. Your pension is guaranteed up to a yearly maximum. Guess what? Most F/As yearly pension payments don't excede the maxmimum. At worst, you'd get 80-90%.

That ignores the fact that only what has been accrued up to termination is guaranteed.

If the pension is terminated tomorrow, all you are guaranteed is what is accrued so far. If you are 35 and have been flying for 10 years, but expected to fly another 30 years and accrue more in your pension, you will take a big hit. The only pension you will receive from the PBGC in that case, after 40 years of work and at age 65, is equivalent to what you would have received had you only been there 10 years instead of 40, since the accrual stopped at that point.

 

[jimntx]

The amount of wide spread ignorance about pensions among F/A is pretty incredible. Your pension is guaranteed up to a yearly maximum. Guess what? Most F/As yearly pension payments don't excede the maxmimum. At worst, you'd get 80-90%.

Oh, do enlighten us. I'm well aware of the PBGC. I'm also well aware that previous corporate dumping through bankruptcy schemes have put the PBGC in peril of being bankrupt. There is NO guarantee that Congress will bail out the PBGC if it can't pay its obligations.

And, considering how small the average AA F/A pension is, even taking a 10-20% cut means working at Wal-Mart until the day you drop dead.