Voluntary Options Opening

[737823]

As a matter of fact Mr. Company Cheerleader (I bet you look cute in your skirt and pom poms), the company included the information regarding the 10 years of losses in their announcement that they were terminating the ORD-DEL service. If you don't believe me (and I really, really do not care) about DFW-ATL, feel free to go look at the loads and the frequencies. The planes are all but empty just about every day.

The day I was referring to with the 12 passengers on the 737? That was a Monday--big business travel day. The 73 departed at 0615 with 12 passengers. I worked the 0700 S80. We had 22 passengers. The 0830 S80 had 40 passengers. Check almost any day, you will see similar loads.

AA has operated ORD-DEL since November 2005, not 10 years as your post incited. Airlines try new routes, some do well and stick around others dont. Many criticize management for not serving international markets, and here they tried hard to make a market work and after 7 years high fuel prices and different market dynamics rendered the flight unprofitable.

Who are you to judge that flights to ATL arent profitable? It's a route between two large corporate centers in the sunbelt and between the primary hubs of two large airlines, of course AA sees a need to have competitive service.

What do managements townhouses and apartments in NYC have anything to do with an early put offer? You should focus on providing your passengers safe and comfortable onboard experience not route frequencies to ATL and other things beyond your control.

Josh

 

[bluebird]

“...A very smart way to deploy some of that cash - in addition to the new fleet, cabin upgrades, etc. - would be to buy out as many of the senior, topped-out employees as possible. As you say - it would require a cash outlay upfront, but would likely pay for itself in very short order.”

I don’t begrudge upper management for getting bonus—whatever they must do to attract talented is fine with me. If we wanted these bonuses we could have gone to Harvard or Yale to make ourselves a more valuable asset to the company.

We are minions—professional minions, whatever. Let’s be honest.

“But, having said all that, I have asked this question to the FAs I know, and I have gotten a different answer from each one: how attractive would they have to make the deal in order to get a lot of takers?”

Personally, I don’t care about a lump sum. Also, I have a brain so I never counted on a pension or medical benefits from an airline. It is easy in this day and age to purchase your own medical insurance. And retire, what is that? Who retires? Once we sever our relationship with the company most of us will get another job anyway.

I’d like unlimited passes and the ability to accept another position in the company.

 

[bluebird]

“…[C]omparing tens if not hundreds of millions in cash outlays to buy out senior employees…”

If they lowered the age requirement for early-out wouldn’t that offset the cost? The APFA proposal does not mention an age limitation (e.g. age + senority = 40). They only tell the membership that they are requesting 15 years seniority.

Also, what about this “forfeit all seniority and relinquish any and all claims for re-employment and recall…” pg 315, Appendix T, 1994).” Some may wish to apply for other positions in the company. I think the union should fight to keep that option open for FAs.

How do you like them apples?

 

[jimntx]

deleted

 

[IORFA]

If they lowered the age requirement for early-out wouldn’t that offset the cost? The APFA proposal does not mention an age limitation (e.g. age + senority = 40). They only tell the membership that they are requesting 15 years seniority.

Also, what about this “forfeit all seniority and relinquish any and all claims for re-employment and recall…” pg 315, Appendix T, 1994).” Some may wish to apply for other positions in the company. I think the union should fight to keep that option open for FAs.

How do you like them apples?

Where have you been? Appendix T went away in 2001. Something like 90 days after ratification of the contract 9-12-01. Please tell me you are joking! Otherwise you are totally lost. Besides the portion you quoted is referring to employment as a flight attendant. They are making the point that you have ZERO rights to come back as a flight attendant. It doesn't say you are not eligible for a job within AMR. At least you didn't quote it on here.

 

[bluebird]

“Where have you been? Appendix T went away in 2001…”

I realize that. I am reviewing old contracts to understand more fully what the company has historically offered. It gives us an idea of what they may be willing to accept today.

APFA has given us their proposal in a highlight sheet. It looks good so far.

“…Please tell me you are joking! Otherwise you are totally lost. Besides the portion you quoted is referring to employment as a flight attendant. They are making the point that you have ZERO rights to come back as a flight attendant. It doesn't say you are not eligible for a job within AMR. At least you didn't quote it on here.”

I’d like the APFA to think outside the box. Having the ability to accept another position in the company is a great asset. Have you worked in any other department besides Flight Service? I have.

Considering the state of the economy, the fact is people will not be able to retire younger. Having the ability to accept early-out while retaining company seniority and the ability to accept another position in the company is an interesting idea if I do say so myself. :blush:

 

[kirkpatrick]

how attractive would they have to make the deal in order to get a lot of takers?

How many takers do they want? There's no clear cut answer to that question. If they offer nothing, some will retire anyway. If they offer insurance, many more will retire. If they offer insurance plus cash, even more.

MK

 

[FWAAA]

Do you suppose that the seller of the $30 million townhouse in London took stock options instead of cash? Or, the apartments in NYC? The lack of cash is only an argument when trying to deny benefits to the peons.

The London townhouse was purchased in 1992 for just several million pounds.

Perhaps we could say that keeping a route for 10 years that lost $45 million every year it operated was being "ultra-conservative with their cash deployment?" (Your words, not mine) Or, on the domestic side, running 10 empty a/c a day almost every day between DFW and ATL was "protecting market share." (The phrase given to me by a member of management.) I pointed out that when you have 12 passengers on a 737 on a weekday morning, your market share is measured in decimal points. It was not until AFTER they filed for bankruptcy that they decided to terminate the ORD-DEL route and reduce service to ATL. Yeah, that's being ultra-conservative with their cash deployment for sure.

There is no evidence at all that DEL lost $45 million in any year let alone in every year. The only number that's out there is analyst Bob McAdoo's estimate of $40 million loss that he wrote about last May, and he didn't claim it lost that amount every year. AA never released any annual loss numbers to the public.

When AA started ORD-DEL in Nov 2005, fuel was about $1.60/gal. Jet fuel is currently more than double that price - DL said that it spent $3.22/gal in January of this year. As a very long-haul route, a fair portion of the fuel burn is because of the weight of all that fuel, so fuel price increases hit that flight disproportionately. With a slowdown of the Indian economy plus low-wage competition like EK and others (EK connects a lot of passengers to India) and high fuel prices, ultra long haul routes will be a challenge even if AA slashes labor costs.

 

[jimntx]

There's always a reason why it's not management's fault, isn't there? Do they have you on retainer? Your better than Missy what's her name at explaining away stuff the company doesn't want looked at.

 

[jersey777]

There's always a reason why it's not management's fault, isn't there? Do they have you on retainer? Your better than Missy what's her name at explaining away stuff the company doesn't want looked at.

No, there are excuse makers that seem to be able to explain why management never had any foresight to keep us out of this mess. Just for fun, l watched a video on jetnet where Lauri Curtis is at a town hall meeting. Someone in the audience asked her where American Airlines will be in 5 years. Her answer......drum roll please....."Good question! I really don't know where we will be." Now that's foresight for you!!!

 

[bluebird]

Still talking about me, and not the points I'm making? Alright.

Explain this please. This sounds as best weird :unsure: and at worst sick. :blink:

 

[FWAAA]

There's always a reason why it's not management's fault, isn't there? Do they have you on retainer? Your better than Missy what's her name at explaining away stuff the company doesn't want looked at.

Nice example of a non-sequitur. And discussing the poster instead of the topic. If you'd tossed in some ad hominem attacks, you could have scored the trifecta.

You posted a made-up statistic: that AA flew a route for 10 years and lost $45 million per year for each and every year of that decade. Your implication was that management was so incompetent that it lost $450 million over a decade on a loser route.

On the verifiable facts - AA flew the route for just over six years when AA announced the cancellation of the route. When the route began, fuel was just half the price it was when it was cancelled.

The other part: the alleged loss of $45 million each and every year? AA never publicly said it lost $45 million per year nor has any analyst even alleged it. One analyst said last May that DEL lost $40 million/year and even he didn't specify the number of years of losses.

My post had nothing to do with who was at "fault."

If it makes you feel better, then yes, managment was at fault for flying to DEL. Managment was at fault for all of AA's losses.

Doesn't change the fact that AA's labor costs have been higher than UA, CO, DL or US during that period. Doesn't change the fact that EK is a formidable competitor for traffic to India. That state-owned airline has 90 A380s on order and already flies several daily USA-DXB flights with more to come.

Disagreements about opinons are expected. Posting made up "facts" as justifications for those opinions? Why not just post the actual facts?

 

[bluebird]

“AA's labor costs have been higher than UA, CO, DL or US…”

Right now I believe the APFA is seeking to maintain our pay scales--not increase them. I believe they are realistic.

 

[jimntx]

WONDERFUL NEWS!!!!! No furloughs on 01APR!!!!!

MAILBOX MESSAGES FOR: PASS 593544
U3Y QFL 3D61F8
22FEB12/1140
TO: ALL FLIGHT ATTENDANTS
RE: VOLUNTARY OPTIONS CLOSED - NO APRIL 1 FURLOUGH
.
THE OVERAGE LEAVE AND PARTNERSHIP FLYING PROFFERS CLOSED THIS
MORNING AND WE ARE PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE SUFFICIENT REQUESTS WERE
RECEIVED TO OFFSET FURLOUGHS ON APRIL 1. FINAL DETAILS WILL BE
AVAILABLE THURSDAY FEB. 23 AT 1600 CT.
.
FLIGHT ATTENDANTS WHO RECEIVED SUBJECT TO FURLOUGH LETTERS
(EFFECTIVE APRIL 1) EARLIER THIS MONTH, WILL RECEIVE LETTERS
EARLY NEXT WEEK ADVISING THEM THAT THEY ARE NO LONGER SUBJECT
TO FURLOUGH.
.
CATHY SCHEU - MANAGING DIRECTOR, FLIGHT SERVICE 22FEB12

 

[bluebird]

WONDERFUL NEWS! No furloughs on 01APR...

Whoo Hoo!