News Flash

[j7915]

j7915 says:
AMFA has the best BS in field. Why is the ecstatically selected Dubya still securely president and there is no move for impeachment? The public has way too much patience unless they are stirred up by demagogues, like the recall move in CA, or the organizers of AMFA, or the imminent WMD destruction threat that is still undiscovered.


WOW, what a broad paint brush you paint with. But, I can see where you are going. Its AMFA's fault the George Bush is President, Its AMFA's fault there is a recall in CA, Its AMFA's fault that Iraq had/has WMD's. and it's AFMA's fault that the airlines are in the condition that they are now.

So, I guess that what ever problem you have, either at home or work, it must be AMFA's fault.

Talk about being out of touch with reality :wacko:

Viper, Are you RV4/AMFADave under a new name? You sound as much a True Believer as he is. Are you guys really as dense as you portray yourselfs?

The question asked was why there was no drive to remove AMFA at various carriers.

My answer was: for the same reason that people put up with lots of other BS in their life's. I then gave examples of the BS people will tolerate. Hence my comment as to the patience or inertia of the public.

I am giving AMFA credit for having the best BS propaganda machine since Dr. Joseph Goebbles plied his trade. If AMFA wants to take credit for Dubya, that is all right by me. It would confirm what I have have known for a long time: AMFA's supporters, here in Tulsa at least, are right wing, conservatives.

 

[AMFAMAN]

I'd love to see what would happen @ MCI if one of our stewards came in wearing an AMFA t-shirt..I believe you would witness unionism in action.

What you gonna do tough guy? Looks like intimidation is the name of the game in MCI. Nevermind representing the men on the floor, just put fear in them. Looks like that will have to change Mr. I've done it all. Hey when the base got shut down for the 2 weeks, were you in management at that time? MCI will be AMFA no matter how much the goon squad threatens the workers.

 

[Buck]

We already had the Kangaroo Courts for T-shirt wearing in TUL. TWU members are still wearing whatever they want. If your former IAM unionism is all about T-shirts, then you are as bad as the TWU.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Thomas...you have named and blamed about every union in our industry as being inept...possibly it is your line of thinking that bears those features.The fact is that when times are bad thats when unions are put to the test. you said they failed...?...the membership voted and lived with what ever the outcome was..I know..I lived that reality. You make it sound like MCI workers give in to all? Might I suggest you ask for some advice from real unionists here at MCI. Have you ever been furloughed? Has your wife ever received notices of court proceedings against you by the company due to union involvement on the work floor? Have you been in jail due to your union activity? What is your claim to unionism? We have survived Icahn...have you? We shut down MCI for 2 weeks and still retained employment...have you? We followed our leadership with hammers and 2x4's..have you?...What have you done for your local besides criticize their time spent?

The majority of us at MCI were unionists when the most of you were using flash cards, so DO NOT preach to me...I'm still here...are you?

The numbers over the last twenty years dont lie. These unions have failed their members.

The members voted the way they did because the unions failed to offer other options. Not only should unions represent but they should lead. "Lead" generally means in a forward direction. While this industry has expanded and seen dramatic increases in productivity its workers-not just mechanics- have seen a steady decline in real wages and other losses. These unions have not led. They have failed. They have failed because its leaders have failed. In fact the only thing that these leaders have been successful at is making themselves unaccountable.

Been furloughed? Yes

Court-not yet.

Jail-no.

Survived Ichan? Yea you survived but he took all your money. Its your own former peers that gave me the info on how you guys at MCI always voted in concessions. They say that MCI was TWA's Tulsa. A bunch of people who lived in an extremely low cost area that talked union as they put in contracts that made everyone else, the people that work where the money is generated, suffer. "I got mine" is what MCI calls unionism. You had the numbers but no guts. Your tough talk seems more like an attempt to hide the truth. You guys surrendered when it really counted. Instead of holding out for a fair wage, or at least putting in regional differentials for others, you voted out of fear and selfishness. "I'm not willing to fight for it but I dont want them to have it either". Fear of being laid off and having to find a job. Fear of having to have to put in a full day of work.

Maybe you did swing that hammer and 2X4 at one time, but those days are long gone now. Your fighting days are not only over, but you will do everything you can to stop the young from fighting because you fear that you may get sucked into it. You dare to mock the young when it is you that gave everything away, including their future and the possibility that they could enjoy the lifestyle you did. The fact is that the TWU is run by people just like you. People that enjoy high living standards off the members dues that will never lead us to fight for something better. They will use fear to sell concessions. To them anything, any concession, is better than fighting. Unions were founded to make things better not to save companies from their own mismanagement by getting their members to toil their lives away working long hours at low wages.

Yea, I'm still here. The sooner the likes of you are gone the better for those of us who have many years to go. We will spend the rest of our careers undoing the damage that people like you have done to the labor movement and working families.

 

[Steve Connell]

What you gonna do tough guy? Looks like intimidation is the name of the game in MCI. Nevermind representing the men on the floor, just put fear in them. Looks like that will have to change Mr. I've done it all. Hey when the base got shut down for the 2 weeks, were you in management at that time? MCI will be AMFA no matter how much the goon squad threatens the workers.

Only if you are weak, spineless, and a drinker of the nectar should you feel intimidated. I realize, from your obvious stature, why you feel threatened...and now we have a goon squad at MCI? What we have at MCI are unionists and this is a sect of which you have never belonged.

When May 10 action occurred I was the a/c steward on graveyard that initiated the action. Evidently you weren't there or you would not ask such a question. You continue to inquire and make remarks about my time in management . What is it that bothers you? My ability to add to my resume and you cannot? My ability to keep my unionism through my venture? You continually hit on a few issues but have yet to talk to me personally...am I getting back to the spineless part again?


Gulp, gulp the nectar...

 

[Steve Connell]

Thomas..what you are involved in is not a labor movement...but another movement.

Being that you were not at TWA you have no ability to surmise what actions were taken or why? You want to read our story and criticize as if your script has any value or meanings to the readers here. Go ahead and continue to bash the union effort that existed and took place in the past...you have yet to show me any action that makes me believe you are the one to follow, but you want to crtique those that have stepped forward...again an easy step from behind your keyboard.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Only if you are weak, spineless, and a drinker of the nectar should you feel intimidated.

So what you are saying is that if anyone has a dissenting voice they will be intimidated. Your a class act tough guy, looks like communism is alive and well. We will win here in KC because the only supporters of the twu you have are paid supporters like yourself.

 

[Steve Connell]

Perhaps boy you missed what I typed...I'll type slower now so not to confuse you.
I'd love to see what would happen @ MCI if one of our STEWARDS came in wearing an AMFA t-shirt..I believe you would witness unionism in action.


BTW ...I am not a paid official as you think or want this board to believe.

 

[Buck]

I never believed you were a paid official, I am just asking you to open your mind a little and look to different sources for information. As for a TWU steward wearing an AMFA shirt, then do what is right and apply the Constitution and the by-laws of the local. But do not allow those from the international to dictate policy to the membership of the local.

 

[Rusty]

originally posted by: j7915
The question asked was why there was no drive to remove AMFA at various carriers.

My answer was: for the same reason that people put up with lots of other BS in their life's. I then gave examples of the BS people will tolerate. Hence my comment as to the patience or inertia of the public.

I am giving AMFA credit for having the best BS propaganda machine since Dr. Joseph Goebbles plied his trade. If AMFA wants to take credit for Dubya, that is all right by me. It would confirm what I have have known for a long time: AMFA's supporters, here in Tulsa at least, are right wing, conservatives.

What you are saying is just another reason to remove the TWU as our bargaining agent. As a general rule you believe people are stupid and they need people like you to think for them. This comes from the trickle down dictatorship mentality the TWU elitist have grown accustom to.

The BS is another reason the card drive numbers are going straight up. People can see right though it, you are only fooling yourself.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Thomas..what you are involved in is not a labor movement...but another movement.

Being that you were not at TWA you have no ability to surmise what actions were taken or why? You want to read our story and criticize as if your script has any value or meanings to the readers here. Go ahead and continue to bash the union effort that existed and took place in the past...you have yet to show me any action that makes me believe you are the one to follow, but you want to crtique those that have stepped forward...again an easy step from behind your keyboard.

Steve;
So you are/were management.

That may explain your concept on unionism. Unionism that you feel should be promoted by management.

Unionism cab be a very general term that describes a wide range of ideologies. The kind that you seem to promote is known as "company Unionism". Company unionsm is the polar opposite of Industrial or craft unionism. Company unions put the interests of the company ahead of the members. Some unions that call themselves Industrial, Craft or Trade unions often behave more like company unions.

That may explain why you feel that your past history of giving away everything to bail out a mismanaged company and save its managers from being held accountable, is what "unionism" is all about.

Real unionism, both Industrial or Craft unionism is about making things better for those who are working. Not selling them out.

 

[Thomas Paine]

The question asked was why there was no drive to remove AMFA at various carriers.

My answer was: for the same reason that people put up with lots of other BS in their life's. I then gave examples of the BS people will tolerate. Hence my comment as to the patience or inertia of the public.

I am giving AMFA credit for having the best BS propaganda machine since Dr. Joseph Goebbles plied his trade. If AMFA wants to take credit for Dubya, that is all right by me. It would confirm what I have have known for a long time: AMFA's supporters, here in Tulsa at least, are right wing, conservatives.

Was that answer supposed to help your arguement that we should stay with the TWU?

You admit that things have to be really bad to motivate change, and thats exactly what we are seeing now. So in other words the TWU has done such a lousy job at representing their members that there are several drives in every workgroup that the represent at AA to leave. And all of those drives stand a good chance of being successful. The Dispatchers already filed. The mechanics are likely to have enough by the end of the month (if they dont already) and now the AGW is starting with the rest of the workgroups. All this despite our tolerance for incompetance!!

I can assure you that most of the 7888 cards collected in M&R are not from Right Wing Conservatives. Just fed up regular working people.



7888

Gee, with the updated seniority list (12099 plus the other groups), plus those on layoffs what does that bring the percentage up to? Could it be more than 50%?
How will the "Stand in Stead" affect the number?

My guess is that they will file for an election next year on the same date that they filed for the UAL vote this year, with over 60% of the cards signed. Maybe do USAIR and AA on the same day!!

 

[AusChud]

Perhaps boy you missed what I typed...I'll type slower now so not to confuse you.
I'd love to see what would happen @ MCI if one of our STEWARDS came in wearing an AMFA t-shirt..I believe you would witness unionism in action.


BTW ...I am not a paid official as you think or want this board to believe.

Steve take your ball and go home, you sound like a kid tough guy.
I dad is bigger than your dad,lol

 

[Steve Connell]

Buck..to set my management record straight...In 1996, after 16 years as a shop steward, I put in for and received a job as a bay/dock foreman. My short tenure,10 months, was cut short due to management requiring more hours to be worked than I cared to give. After going through a divorce I chose my kids on the weekends over managing the bay on overtime, actually was no choice. I now have, as I wanted, a mangement position on my resume if I so desire and feel the need to seek employment elsewhere. My stint in management had nothing to do with nor did it change my unionism beliefs.

As far as the International dictating policy are you relating to the Cunningham trial that I was involved in? I was told by witnesses at the original trial that Gary and Dan attempted to make a mockery of our system of discipline..if this is true then they got their just rewards...I was not at the original, just the recent trial in Dallas as requested by the local to be held by the International. I guarantee you that trial was held by the book and am willing to answer any questions you or others have regarding it. I will not, and am not here to badmouth Dan or Gary, I just do not approve of some of their actions or their means they use to attain certain results. Gary impressed me as a very intelligent man, and is very much due his opinion, as am I.

As far as peeps believing me to be some kind of a bad dude, I assure you I am not. I simply face the confrontation head on instead of throwing punches behind an alias. I mean no harm to any brother but expect the same in return. I am honest in stating my opinions and willing to back my local with any means available...that may be what scares peeps...I have and will go that extra step.

 

[Buck]

Buck..to set my management record straight...In 1996, after 16 years as a shop steward, I put in for and received a job as a bay/dock foreman. My short tenure,10 months, was cut short due to management requiring more hours to be worked than I cared to give. After going through a divorce I chose my kids on the weekends over managing the bay on overtime, actually was no choice. I now have, as I wanted, a mangement position on my resume if I so desire and feel the need to seek employment elsewhere. My stint in management had nothing to do with nor did it change my unionism beliefs.

Some union members would find this type of action hypocritical....
at some point your views on unionism must have faltered?


As far as the International dictating policy are you relating to the Cunningham trial that I was involved in? I was told by witnesses at the original trial that Gary and Dan attempted to make a mockery of our system of discipline..if this is true then they got their just rewards...I was not at the original, just the recent trial in Dallas as requested by the local to be held by the International. I guarantee you that trial was held by the book and am willing to answer any questions you or others have regarding it. I will not, and am not here to badmouth Dan or Gary, I just do not approve of some of their actions or their means they use to attain certain results. Gary impressed me as a very intelligent man, and is very much due his opinion, as am I.

Nothing to do with Cunningham or his trial. Why was a member of Local 530 needed at a 567 trial? What I am referring to is that you have no real history with these events or individuals, right? The former TWA/IAM members are young in the affairs of the TWU.

As far as peeps believing me to be some kind of a bad dude, I assure you I am not. I simply face the confrontation head on instead of throwing punches behind an alias. I mean no harm to any brother but expect the same in return. I am honest in stating my opinions and willing to back my local with any means available...that may be what scares peeps...I have and will go that extra step

Would please define "peeps"?

I have no doubt that you are honestly stating your opinion. It is however my opinion that you a blind to the reality of what the TWU is or has become. Again your vision of Unionism appears to conform with that of which it was intended, but the division the TWU has generated is far from what unionism is susposed to be.