New Vote o Video from Local Presidents

[Overspeed]

Allied Pilots Q&A lines up with Levine and Roth as well.

https://public.alliedpilots.org/APA/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=hM-uMD-xdzI%3d&tabid=1051&mid=2163

 

[Mr Red]

Allied Pilots Q&A lines up with Levine and Roth as well.

https://public.alliedpilots.org/APA/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=hM-uMD-xdzI%3d&tabid=1051&mid=2163

THE PILOTS AT AA ARE NOT AT THE BOTTOM IN PAY,BENEFITS,AND WORK RULES IN THEIR INDUSTRY
LIKE AA AMTS. WE ARE AT THE BOTTOM !!!!DEAD LAST BOTTOM FEEDERS!!!

 

[Overspeed]

We dont have to be lawyers or economists to determine that an offer that ties us up for six years at the very deep bottom of the industry is unacceptable under any circumstance.

I wonder what they would say if they were being told to accept this?

Probably the same thing we are.

Let the Judge rule, then we will have to do what we need to do. 700 says they did such a great job at USAIR that after many years with the company he quit. I'd rather that they take it from me than just hand it over. The only selling point you have is that you are saying that less heads will be cut, but there is no langauge supporting that claim, in fact the 35% outsourcing, not including parts and materails, would allow them to outsource 4000 jobs, if the spend stayed the same. When we get the new planes even more jobs can be eliminated, not outsourced, just eliminated, so the cap doesnt even come into play. there is nothing in this language that would prevent them from cutting over 5000 jobs by 2018 and you know it. Your only selling point is fear. You are like the Indians with wolf pelts trying to scare the buffalo off a cliff. Hopefully they turn away and run right over you. You are saying that you are saving jobs while getting them to agree to langauge that eliminates job security and allows outsourcing based on spend.

Now we know why you hide behind an alias. Probably for the same reason you wont make a video yourself and get Sharon and Tom to do it.

The 35% maintenance spend is Labor (wages and benefits) + Material the language is there. Read it.

UA, US, and DL were all below us for the last nine years since they went through BK. You said BK was a scare tactic yet the Int'l warned you BK was going to suck big time for labor. Now we are in the sh*t and you are complaining about how screwed up it is. Isn't that what the Int'l was trying to tell you years ago, that BK sucks?!?! Now it's our turn going through the BK screwfest and it sucks! Bob, sounds like they knew what they were talking about after all. Maybe you should have listened then.

 

[Bob Owens]

Keep saying TWU, but aren't the Presidents the one's that negotiate these deals. Bob and others have been telling us since '08 to say NO...We have, but they still point fingers and blame others as to why we don't get anything better.

If we continue to say no, all that seems to happen is that we fall further behind. We can't move forward if we expect to get 20%, 30% or 40% raise. Since '08 all we've heard is to vote no so we can get the deal we deserve...When will that happen. Even Bob says there has been changes to the negotiating committee and the only carry overs are the Vote No guys.

Its an extremely slow process and sometimes you end up with a wash, the replacement turns out to be no better, but we do finally have the five cornerstone cities and AFW on the same page. The Committtee of 16 only had 7 A&Ps on it, (six voted against this),one AMT, two FSCs and 7 Title II. Only one Title II voted against it.

Three rejections and two card drives will leave the International with few options other than turn things over to the guys the members follow.

Yesterday we met with USAIR management, they said that they are waiting to see what we do before they make a deal with their mechanics, like Vultures, when we kill the profession they will want the same from their guys.

 

[Overspeed]

But the 2000 that you claim to be saving dont.

I'm not saving anybody, the TA gives them a better chance at working here then the term sheet does. The vote no option increases the number to 4,600 like Roth stated in the video.

Vote no and find out.

 

[Bob Owens]

So you guarantee that if we vote no, we will be better off? And how long will we have to live under the abrogated contract before we recover all that will be lost?

You want guarantees go to Midas.

There are few sure things in life. You have a choice; fight or surrender. If you choose to surrender you will be settling for $16,000 a year less than United, and United starts negotaiting for a new contract in September. $57,000 a year less than UPS, in 2002 we made as much as they did.

How bad will things have to get before you are willing to fight?

 

[Mr Red]

I'm not saving anybody, the TA gives them a better chance at working here then the term sheet does. The vote no option increases the number to 4,600 like Roth stated in the video.

Vote no and find out.

WE DID !!!

 

[FWAAA]

Bob, this is BK. Not negotiations. AA only has to check and confer. The target is the target and voting the TA down only helps confirm their argument in court that the TWU membership has been unwilling to adjust to the market realities. Either outsource the work or continue working as we are and accept lower wages. You cannot have both. Test the judge, vote no and we will find out if you or the experts are right.

You are correct when you say that this is bankruptcy, not typical section 6 negotiations.

But you are incorrect when you say that voting no confirms AA's arguments in court. That is wrong as a matter of law, as the negotiations that have taken place since the motion to abrogate was filed are irrelevant to the section 1113 motion. The judge will grant the motion or deny the motion based on the evidence, and negotiations since that motion was filed are not relevant evidence.

 

[Overspeed]

Its an extremely slow process and sometimes you end up with a wash, the replacement turns out to be no better, but we do finally have the five cornerstone cities and AFW on the same page. The Committtee of 16 only had 7 A&Ps on it, (six voted against this),one AMT, two FSCs and 7 Title II. Only one Title II voted against it.

Three rejections and two card drives will leave the International with few options other than turn things over to the guys the members follow.

Yesterday we met with USAIR management, they said that they are waiting to see what we do before they make a deal with their mechanics, like Vultures, when we kill the profession they will want the same from their guys.

How many people on the E Boards of the big corner stone cities have officers who are going to get WARN letters of the TA gets voted down? There goes your back up Bob.

US is looking for back door. They have more debt than equity right now and their pilot and FA contracts have a nice poison pill option. Parker and company will get a nice buyout package when they don't finish their employment contracts.

So US is your savior? Sounds like TWA redux. Again you haven't thought this process all the way through Bob.

 

[Bob Owens]

I'm not saving anybody, the TA gives them a better chance at working here then the term sheet does. The vote no option increases the number to 4,600 like Roth stated in the video.

Vote no and find out.

"The TA gives them a better chance"

Chance:The unknown and unpredictable element in happenings that seems to have no
assignable cause.

So you are admitting that there is no language protecting the 2000 jobs that you say we might be saving if we vote YES?

So you are saying that 11000 of us should accept the worst deal in the industry, sabotaging the leverage of many thousands more mechanics in the industry to make improvements on the chance that 2000 people may not get laid off yet you criticize me for advocating that we ay no because we retain the ability to negotiate and have a chance at getting a fair deal that puts us among our peers?

 

[Bob Owens]

How many people on the E Boards of the big corner stone cities have officers who are going to get WARN letters of the TA gets voted down? There goes your back up Bob.

How many will get them if we vote YES? You finally admit that a Yes only gives them a better "chance" that the 4600 wont get laid off.

Fear, Fear Fear, thats all you got.

US is looking for back door. They have more debt than equity right now and their pilot and FA contracts have a nice poison pill option. Parker and company will get a nice buyout package when they don't finish their employment contracts.

So US is your savior? Sounds like TWA redux. Again you haven't thought this process all the way through Bob.

Spin spin spin
You dont read very well do you? When have I ever advocated the USAIR deal? I dont. USAIR is waiting to see what we do, if we screw the Industry again, like we did in 2003, they will use our ten year deal to try and leverage concessions or at least mitigate gains that their mechanics are trying to make.

 

[Overspeed]

How many will get them if we vote YES? You finally admit that a Yes only gives them a better "chance" that the 4600 wont get laid off.

Fear, Fear Fear, thats all you got.



Spin spin spin
You dont read very well do you? When have I ever advocated the USAIR deal? I dont. USAIR is waiting to see what we do, if we screw the Industry again, like we did in 2003, they will use our ten year deal to try and leverage concessions or at least mitigate gains that their mechanics are trying to make.

Facts, facts, facts. That's what I got.

The APA, APFA, and TWU experts all disagree with your arguments. That's not fear, that's fact.

 

[Overspeed]

You want guarantees go to Midas.

There are few sure things in life. You have a choice; fight or surrender. If you choose to surrender you will be settling for $16,000 a year less than United, and United starts negotaiting for a new contract in September. $57,000 a year less than UPS, in 2002 we made as much as they did.

How bad will things have to get before you are willing to fight?

So we got Bob's "expert" opinions and that we can "fight" for a better deal if we vote no.

Bob we would have made more than UA if we had voted yes back in 2010. Thanks for the recommendation expert.

 

[Overspeed]

APA attorney Best Case scenario highlighted in red.

M E M O R A N D U M
To: APA National Officers & Board of Directors
From: APA General Counsel (James & Hoffman, P.C.)
Re: American’s Ability to Implement Terms if the Court Orders Rejection of our CBA
Dt: July 6, 2012
As you know, Judge Lane is scheduled to rule on or before August 15, 2012, on American’s motion to reject our collective bargaining agreement. Many of you have questions about what happens next. It is difficult to give clear answers because the law in this area is not well developed. Nonetheless, this memorandum explains the likely possibilities.
SUMMARY OF CONCLUSIONS
 Effect of Rejection

o No right to strike in response to rejection
o No right to unsecured claim, unless later negotiated as part of a consensual deal

 What terms can American impose after rejection?

o Worst case: anything it wants
o Best case: terms of April term sheet (final, pretrial term sheet), except terms made contingent on consensual agreement
 No pay raises, 13.5% contribution to 401(k), sequence protection, parts of LTD benefit, or profit sharing
o American may try to argue that it can go further and cherry-pick the worst terms from the April term sheet, even if it didn’t explicitly make them contingent on a consensual agreement

 American will not be required to abide by the June 20 Tentative Agreement

 

[AC Tynker]

NYer wrote:

Did they have a right to be there? Because if they did, then you lost the vote. If they didn't, then where is the protest to that illegality. It seems you just seem to blame EVERYONE that doesn't agree with you or goes against you...The only thing that seems consistent is that your attacks seem to expand to larger groups of people.

There are other groups in the TWU, are they all at the bottom of the industry? No. Yet, they are also represented by the TWU, Sharon and Tom...The other interesting thing is that they are not represented by you and your cohorts. That seems to be an interesting fact.

I bought into the Vote No mantra for years, but it's getting old and it's not getting us anywhere. This time, it actually takes us backwards as we seem to lose everything you fear, but we get not monetary advances and that seems to be a consistent message from the APA and APFA...But I guess you don't like them either.

GO WORK FOR AN MRO IF THATS WHAT YOU WANT !

If he wants what? You may want to slow down a bit and thoroughly read the post. He made a worthy statement as to the situation we are in.