WeAAsles
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No problemo man.
New Pay Raises for Crews
- Thread starter UPNAWAY
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No problemo man.
eolesen
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- Jul 23, 2003
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Actually, none of my friends I'm still in contact with at AA on a regular basis (approx two dozen or so ranging from agents I was hired on with 28 years ago to directors) were let go. I know another dozen or two who left or took buyouts along the way. None of them are as happy as they were under Arpey.
Interesting. You lambast some guy who never worked for pre-merger AA, but then go and make broadbrush assumptions about what it was like working for Lorenzo...
FWIW, I worked for Lorenzo, and I worked at AA. I can say that life under Lorenzo wasn't as bad as being in a death camp or hiding away in attics/basements from the SS or Gestapo. It's an insult to even go to that extent...
Like Crandall, Lorenzo was hyper-focused on costs. Unlike Crandall, things like customer service and employee's job satisfaction were never a consideration when defining corporate strategy at the Texas Air owned properties, which is why so many people vilify him and revile his name.
Yes, Lorenzo and Texas Air used questionable means and stretched the legal system much farther than it was intended to be in order to gut the unions, but what gets lost in that is that Lorenzo was also one of the most shrewd CEOs around at the time. Texas International pulled off a merger with an airline >5x its size when they bought Continental. I can't think of that having successfully happened twice in the airline industry (although it has happened in other sectors).
WeAAsles
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Met Arpey once and he was nothing to write home about. He was a lousy CEO from the direction I saw AA head to. Bankruptcy!!! So what if people liked him. Liking someone doesn't mean their good at their job.
Lorenzo, his reputation is all I need.
As people I could care less about either one of them.
eolesen
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Close but not quite. US was a little over half the size of AA, and it wasn't a hostile takeover as much as it was unwanted by management, but OK with unsecured creditors (not necessarily shareholders) and employees.
Texas International by comparison was a classic hostile takeover. They started with 9% of CO's stock and turned it into a proxy fight. The CO board and employee unions wanted to merge with Western (who wound up with Delta), but Lorenzo kept buying up the stock until he exceeded 50%.
WeAAsles
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E it was ultimately the "secured creditors" who accepted the Parker plan over the "Cornerstone plan" The secured creditors are the actual owners of the Airline, not any of the managers who work for them.
And why wouldn't the unsecured creditors (Which includes contractual employees) in hindsight be very satisfied with the Parker plan?
The equity granted to all unsecured creditors if not cashed out immediately more than made up for the losses in court.
As an unsecured creditor employee what was issued to me in equity was over double its issued value when I cashed it in. And so far I've seen a dramatic over 40% rise in my wages which has also increased my value going in to my 401k (including my percentage match) and my Social Security investment. And we still have more to come when we get a JCBA. (None of this would have occurred under the "Cornerstone Plan")
Since the merger I've been able to take advantage of perfecting my credit and score, investing in a low interest mortgage, a low interest auto loan and now an entertainment system that I paid cash for.
And you still have not responded to that news item that propelled AAL stock up the other day? Can I get a response to that and again the Buffett investment?
WeAAsles
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BTW E, all of those people you say are still friends of yours here at AA who hate working under Parker and miss Mr Nice guy Arpey. Have they gotten raises since the merger?
Yes I have noticed that Management and support staff seem to be working a little harder these days than they used to.
Nothing wrong with some good honest hard work BTW.
Yes I have noticed that Management and support staff seem to be working a little harder these days than they used to.
Nothing wrong with some good honest hard work BTW.
CremaDiLimone
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- Jun 8, 2016
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the arpey time was the numb time. took over after all the anger of carty/bonuses and employee compensation cuts. i remember a manager who told me she lost 7% of her pay, while we lost apprx. 25% of our overall compensation...and she also got 1,000 options on shares, while we received barely over 500.
share the pain, share the gain? right.
as far as parker...i like his enthusiasm, over-the-top optimism and his honesty (company's short-term and long-term future/industry). so far, he's been correct on all. you can't argue that. i believe he handcuffs his very own negotiating committee with his honest take on aa's rosy current status and even rosier future.
i believed all those attributes would translate to speedy, industry-leading contracts after 2014...but i was wrong. i still believe all he has to do is give a nod and we have a contract.
when parker talks about changing the toxic employer-employee culture and the company drags it's feet in talks or refuses to give or even match industry leading compensation - save for wages; (vc/holidays/holiday pay/sk policy) after telling the world that aa won't lose money anymore (only less profit in a bad year)...this won't endear him to anyone who pays attention to his words and then observes the actions/non-actions.
still, the parker plan was worth more to employees and the company than anything that horton and his people envisioned for the post-bk aa. parker still needs to work on his leap of faith philosophy.
weigh and measure everything, better parker than horton or roger staubach on the aa BOD. lots of money and shares, but not sure what roger the dodger brought to the aa table.
share the pain, share the gain? right.
as far as parker...i like his enthusiasm, over-the-top optimism and his honesty (company's short-term and long-term future/industry). so far, he's been correct on all. you can't argue that. i believe he handcuffs his very own negotiating committee with his honest take on aa's rosy current status and even rosier future.
i believed all those attributes would translate to speedy, industry-leading contracts after 2014...but i was wrong. i still believe all he has to do is give a nod and we have a contract.
when parker talks about changing the toxic employer-employee culture and the company drags it's feet in talks or refuses to give or even match industry leading compensation - save for wages; (vc/holidays/holiday pay/sk policy) after telling the world that aa won't lose money anymore (only less profit in a bad year)...this won't endear him to anyone who pays attention to his words and then observes the actions/non-actions.
still, the parker plan was worth more to employees and the company than anything that horton and his people envisioned for the post-bk aa. parker still needs to work on his leap of faith philosophy.
weigh and measure everything, better parker than horton or roger staubach on the aa BOD. lots of money and shares, but not sure what roger the dodger brought to the aa table.
WeAAsles
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Apparently I don't see the same qualities in Parker that you do. 5-10 years ago when the company is back in bankruptcy court or asking for concessions.
Obviously on this issue you don't have the ability to engage in the subject with any clear objectivity. Your responses have been quite irrational so far.
But I did enjoy your Freudian slip where you said 5 to 10 years "ago" rather than "from now"
Apparently your subconscious mind is more willing to express the truth than your conscience one.
First time I ever saw this"E" dude lose his cool,somebody hit a nerve. It has to hurt more because it was the Weez with the dentist drill and he just dumped and didn't wash his hands
CremaDiLimone
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i realize that BK in the usa has now been incentivized for business and transformed as a business tool...but, i don't see it.
delta's fleet averages 17 years..and with over $9 billion in current debt, dl would be a more obvious choice for bk when it needs to spend $12 billion-$16 billion on cap ex - just for airplanes. knowing this, dl still stunned the investor world with it's recent commitment to relocate apprx. $7.5 billion in wealth back to shareholders, just in 2017-2020 alone.
precarious stuff in bygone days with funding pensions and $115 oil. it's not the same anymore.
aa says that 2017 is the peak of cap ex and debt will be concentrated on going forward. just for $hit$ and giggles, aa has $7 billion in cash in it's pocket.
as far as qualities in parker...i consider his optimism and enthusiasm as attributes, not qualities. i consider his honesty regarding the industry as a quality...but, i'm not a big fan of saying one thing to employees and watching another unfold.
Per your: "FYI you never worked for AA in your career" Correct (save for recent merger-mania) since I long ago and quite properly had zero notions of accepting employment with a "B Scale" airline that so cheerfully "ate it's young" when better offers were easily available. You're apparently utterly ignorant of history, but American "ranked" only slightly "better" than Scab-Ridden-Continental back in the day, and neither were at all first picks for qualified pilots.
"I don't know who Parker is"? Again correct. You clearly don't. "Talk about ramblings...."? I'll leave you to yours.
Next case.
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WeAAsles
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Correct. You clearly don't. "Talk about ramblings...."? I'll leave you to yours.
P.S. "FYI you never worked for AA in your career" Again correct (save for recent merger-mania) since I long ago and quite properly had zero notions of accepting employment with a "B Scale" airline that so cheerfully "ate it's young" when better offers were easily available.
Bully Bully for you then. Thumbs up.
