Continental reaches tentative deals with unions
http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompa...28296533_newsml
http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompa...28296533_newsml
New Deal
- Thread starter Borescope
- Start date
As a mere outside observer, I'm impressed at how CO appear to have handled the whole painful givebacks issue with much less heat and much less battling in the press, than US, DL, UA, or AA managed. OK, it went down to the mgt-imposed wire, and maybe there was much more heat behind the scenes, but to the outside it was well-managed. I'll be interested in reading the views from CO folks and learning more about what happened behind the scenes.
I will also be interested to see what the mix of wage cuts / benefits cuts / work rules changes are. From my viewer's perch, I think some of the other carriers and unions left a lot of work rules in place that could have been given up for less in salary cuts -- with sufficient trust on both sides. In CO's case, I will also be interested to see what the pilots agreed to in scope -- this will obviously have ramifications on XJT.
I still believe CO needs to get innovating and leading again in various aspects of its business model (pricing, some aspects of network planning/structure, product, OnePass etc) and not cling to sitting tight, hoping someone else will die first.
I will also be interested to see what the mix of wage cuts / benefits cuts / work rules changes are. From my viewer's perch, I think some of the other carriers and unions left a lot of work rules in place that could have been given up for less in salary cuts -- with sufficient trust on both sides. In CO's case, I will also be interested to see what the pilots agreed to in scope -- this will obviously have ramifications on XJT.
I still believe CO needs to get innovating and leading again in various aspects of its business model (pricing, some aspects of network planning/structure, product, OnePass etc) and not cling to sitting tight, hoping someone else will die first.
Honestly, I think that they're suffering a bit from deer-in-the-headlights. Management teams that work well in one set of market conditions do not necessarily work well in another.
This team seems to understand well how to extract revenue from business travelers when the competition is primarily other legacy carriers. They seem less well equipped to do the same when the competition includes the LCCs.
In the parlance of Gordon Bethune, they understand how to sell a fully-loaded pizza at a hefty price. They do not, however, understand how to sell their pizzas at a premium that reflects the current competition.
This team seems to understand well how to extract revenue from business travelers when the competition is primarily other legacy carriers. They seem less well equipped to do the same when the competition includes the LCCs.
In the parlance of Gordon Bethune, they understand how to sell a fully-loaded pizza at a hefty price. They do not, however, understand how to sell their pizzas at a premium that reflects the current competition.
L
luvn737s
Guest
Does anyone foresee a set of circumstances where labor will regain it's power to raise wages? If not, have unions voted themselves into irrelevancy? The wage discrepancy that separates mainlines from commuters (the ersatz backstop of wages) originated because of the types of airplanes that commuters flew and the scope clauses that separated them from mainlines. It seems that there is a growing homogeneity among airlines with commuter wages prevailing.
If labor is unwilling or unable to defend what they have, where will the ones willing to fight for real gains come from? A generation from now people in the airline business will talk of six-figure salaries the way we talk of linen napkins in coach and stewardesses hats today. Nostalgia rarely motivates a group to take action.
Additionally, why would anyone in airline management try to seek cost cuts anywhere besides labor now that they have seen how easy it is to gain concessions? And perhaps more importantly, why would any other stakeholder (lessors, fuel vendors, caterers, etc.) be willing to compete on price when they know that as long as labor is paid above minimum wage, there is still ready cash available for airlines to fix their own problems?
Is it still a profession when you're willing to have a lousy job than no job at all?
If labor is unwilling or unable to defend what they have, where will the ones willing to fight for real gains come from? A generation from now people in the airline business will talk of six-figure salaries the way we talk of linen napkins in coach and stewardesses hats today. Nostalgia rarely motivates a group to take action.
Additionally, why would anyone in airline management try to seek cost cuts anywhere besides labor now that they have seen how easy it is to gain concessions? And perhaps more importantly, why would any other stakeholder (lessors, fuel vendors, caterers, etc.) be willing to compete on price when they know that as long as labor is paid above minimum wage, there is still ready cash available for airlines to fix their own problems?
Is it still a profession when you're willing to have a lousy job than no job at all?
LGA Fleet Service
Veteran
Gotta' be a record, four unions grabbing ankles in unison...
NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 10,154
- 681
luvn737s said:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Is it still a profession when you're willing to have a lousy job than no job at all?"
luvn737's,
Not sure if you're a legacy employee, or not, but here goes...........
It helps to understand CO's total culture.
They have 2(REAL) hubs IAH + EWR (I believe IAH is larger)
They have 3 union groups Pilots, F/A's, and Mechanics.
1. Pilots are NOT real UNION people !!
2.. There is "NO SUCH THING" as a union person in the (sad) state of TEX-ASS !!
3. Fleet service is NON-Union
So that leaves us with only 2 potential union strongholds EWR F/a's + EWR AMT's, and they are (in numbers) OUTNUMBERED !!!
NH/BB's
Anybody care to say what a "topped out" CO FSC(non CC) makes per hour (base pay), with the new $$ Cuts ???
NewHampshire Black Bears said:
Right on NH/BB, especially in regards to #2. I worked in DFW and those guys make union wages but they hate unions. I would like to see them (all TX airline employees) make the republican wage of $5.15 an hour. They think that Bush walks on water. As for CO ramp, I don't know what they make but at my city they contract out. I think they contract out almost all of their cities (except for EWR, IAH. and CLE). This is a vestige of the Lorenzo era.
Kev3188
Veteran
FWIW, I found this info on the Mechanic's TA on another board:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's The TA Outline
1. Continental Airlines Retirement Plan protected for the life of the agreement
2. Caps on health insurance:
a. 2005 benefits and employee costs protected
b. 2006 and beyond no increases in the following:
Office visit co-pays, specialty care visit co-pays, hospital care visit co-pays, emergency care visit co-pays, employee co-insurance, out-of-pocket maximums, deductibles and no change to the lifetime maximum benefit (unlimited).
c. Employees’ cost for health insurance in 2006 and beyond will not exceed 20% of the total cost.
3. Protection against certain events in case of bankruptcy (1113 Letter)
4. No furloughs for the life of the agreement.
5. Stock options
6. 401 (k) retained
7. Enhanced Profit sharing
8. Vacation unchanged
9. Sick/OJI leave unchanged
10. Increase trades day limits (ability to trade for an additional four (4) shifts per work week)
11. $100.00 annual tool allowance
12. 4.07 % concession off “all-in†rate
13. Wage increase of 2% on 7/1/07 and 2% on 7/1/08
14. Overtime for employees who work on RDO’s contingent upon employee being credited with 40 hours of work in that week, overtime retained for work after 8 or 10 in same day and double time (2X) retained. (Examples to be included in mail out and CBA)
15. Eliminate 2 floating holidays
16. Effective date 04-01-05
17. Duration December, 2008 (two (2) year extension)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's The TA Outline
1. Continental Airlines Retirement Plan protected for the life of the agreement
2. Caps on health insurance:
a. 2005 benefits and employee costs protected
b. 2006 and beyond no increases in the following:
Office visit co-pays, specialty care visit co-pays, hospital care visit co-pays, emergency care visit co-pays, employee co-insurance, out-of-pocket maximums, deductibles and no change to the lifetime maximum benefit (unlimited).
c. Employees’ cost for health insurance in 2006 and beyond will not exceed 20% of the total cost.
3. Protection against certain events in case of bankruptcy (1113 Letter)
4. No furloughs for the life of the agreement.
5. Stock options
6. 401 (k) retained
7. Enhanced Profit sharing
8. Vacation unchanged
9. Sick/OJI leave unchanged
10. Increase trades day limits (ability to trade for an additional four (4) shifts per work week)
11. $100.00 annual tool allowance
12. 4.07 % concession off “all-in†rate
13. Wage increase of 2% on 7/1/07 and 2% on 7/1/08
14. Overtime for employees who work on RDO’s contingent upon employee being credited with 40 hours of work in that week, overtime retained for work after 8 or 10 in same day and double time (2X) retained. (Examples to be included in mail out and CBA)
15. Eliminate 2 floating holidays
16. Effective date 04-01-05
17. Duration December, 2008 (two (2) year extension)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
