New ATC Delay Program

[robbedagain]

there is one daily 767 phl-bda-phl flt. leaves phl at like 945 arr 1250 depart bda at 230 gettin in phl around 5ish.

 

[tadjr]

Can attest that the 767 does BDA. I flew on it about 3 weeks ago there. Its an am flight over around 940 and leaves just about 1-2 or so. Nice flight over and BDA was great. Get to walk off the plane onto the airstairs. Havent done that anywhere in a while.

 

[767jetz]

LGA is slot controlled.

No. LGA WAS slot controlled.

 

[john john]

No. LGA WAS slot controlled.

HUH!

 

[trvlr64]

Let me just give you a few figures to show why PHL is a better gateway to Europe then PIT. Today, if the figures I have are correct, we will board 833 local PHL customers to Europe. Destinations such as DUB, LGW, and CDG each have over 85 customers boarding that are PHL locals. Destinations such as MXP, BCN, VCE, MUC, AMS, MAD, FCO, MAN, FRA and SNN all have over 45 customers originiating their travel from PHL. There are only 2 flights that are showing less then 30 customers originiating their travel from PHL and that is GLA and ARN.

In comparison, today we are showing 134 customer traveling from PIT to PHL to connect to the European flights. If we were to move the European gateway from PHL to PIT, would we ever have local boardings comparable to PHL? No. Where would all those PHL to Europe customers go? With the 4 flights we now have from PHL-PIT between 1pm and 6pm, there are only 500 seats offered in the market. So, should we upgrade the service to offer 757 from PHL-PIT every half hour to accomodate the international traffic? Then what would happen to the local PHL-PIT traffic? Where would they go? How many of the international customers would we lose to CO out of EWR, or DL, AA or any international carrier out of JFK?

PHL makse sense as the international gateway to Europe. Do I agree with the min conx time to the European flights, absolutely not. Min conx time should be 90 min - 2 hours, but you have to stay competitive with what other airlines are offering.

You say that there are 134 PIT customers going to PHL for international flights. But how many more are using the other carriers now instead of US?

To say that there are only 134 customers going international from PIT is ridiculous. I personally won't step foot again on another US international flight that forces me through PHL. Sorry Mark but this analogy of yours above doesn't hold water.

I'd be curious to find out what the loads were years ago versus now when PIT had international flights. Come back with that data and you might have a good argument for your position.

I find it amusing when people bash the airlines for stupidly scheduling so many flights at the same time. Does anybody know why they do it? I'll help: it's because the customer wants more choice of flights and short connection times. Airlines are only responding to customer demand. Any changes to the status quo are difficult because the competition must do the same. The FAA forced AA and UA to make adjustments at ORD but that hasn't happened so evenly elsewhere.

AH.......nope!! The "smart" customer like me wants that longer connection time so I don't have issues when ATC or MX causes problems. Try booking an international flight on the website and see what flight times they give you. The connections are too close. Years ago when I was doing a lot of TA travel I would book my flight through the Chairman's Desk and purposely ask for the flight that was leaving PIT for PHL or CLT earlier than what was being spit out by the website.

 

[MarkMyWords]

trvlr64 -

While I realize that it is an inaccurate comparison, the point I was trying to prove was that we are boarding in excess of 800 LOCAL customers in PHL, while we were only showing 134 customers connecting in PHL out of PIT. If we routed traffic in the reverse direction, we would now, theortically, force 800 people to connect in PIT and the seat lift isn't there. Additionally, we would lose much of that traffic to airports like EWR, JFK and IAD. Do you honestly think that there is comparable international traffic in PIT to support 17 international flights a day? While PIT to FRA and LGW generated a reasonable amount of local traffic, would PIT-MXP, BCN or VCE? Additionally, you would have range issues with the ETOPS 757 and routes out of PIT.

I stand by my theory.....PHL as an international gateway makes sense. If they are going to change anything, minimum connecting time is where I would start.

 

[trvlr64]

trvlr64 -

While I realize that it is an inaccurate comparison, the point I was trying to prove was that we are boarding in excess of 800 LOCAL customers in PHL, while we were only showing 134 customers connecting in PHL out of PIT. If we routed traffic in the reverse direction, we would now, theortically, force 800 people to connect in PIT and the seat lift isn't there. Additionally, we would lose much of that traffic to airports like EWR, JFK and IAD. Do you honestly think that there is comparable international traffic in PIT to support 17 international flights a day? While PIT to FRA and LGW generated a reasonable amount of local traffic, would PIT-MXP, BCN or VCE? Additionally, you would have range issues with the ETOPS 757 and routes out of PIT.

I stand by my theory.....PHL as an international gateway makes sense. If they are going to change anything, minimum connecting time is where I would start.

Oh I understood what your were saying, but it would be very interesting to find out what were the PIT loads years ago versus now and especially since your customers now have the *A to burn our miles on and purchase many more international flights. I'd be very curious to find out how many people would choose US over a *A carrier and vice versa.

 

[MarkMyWords]

If my memory serves me correctly....I believe we really didn't board much more then 120 local customers in PIT when we were operating FRA and LGW. Don't quote me on it....it has been a while since I worked international at PIT.

 

[767jetz]

HUH!

Tell me... If LGA is slot controlled, where did JetBlue get the slots to start service? Or the many RJ operators that now clog the airport?

 

[tadjr]

Article on delays

I'm surprise that PHL hasnt been worse this year than it has been. Granted, its nowhere near great, but we've actually only had 2 or 3 days so far this tstorm season that we've busted our International flights (an earlier departure time than last year helps also.)
Was wondering how everyone else thinks the new system is working out now that its been around a month or so.

 

[murphy]

You say that there are 134 PIT customers going to PHL for international flights. But how many more are using the other carriers now instead of US?

To say that there are only 134 customers going international from PIT is ridiculous. I personally won't step foot again on another US international flight that forces me through PHL. Sorry Mark but this analogy of yours above doesn't hold water.

I'd be curious to find out what the loads were years ago versus now when PIT had international flights. Come back with that data and you might have a good argument for your position.
AH.......nope!! The "smart" customer like me wants that longer connection time so I don't have issues when ATC or MX causes problems. Try booking an international flight on the website and see what flight times they give you. The connections are too close. Years ago when I was doing a lot of TA travel I would book my flight through the Chairman's Desk and purposely ask for the flight that was leaving PIT for PHL or CLT earlier than what was being spit out by the website.

If PIT O&D could support international flights, it would have international flights. They've been begging LH for any flights at all, and LH continues to refuse.

Tell me... If LGA is slot controlled, where did JetBlue get the slots to start service? Or the many RJ operators that now clog the airport?

They got them from the DOT, the same place everyone gets slots. Here's an article.