More Money To Spend

[Hackman]

I guess the omnipotent twu believer aafsc is not going to answer my factual post.

Thats fine, I really didn't understand why I was sparring with a ramper that has no bearing on my career field, except to ride my coat tails when it comes to contract negotiations. :huh:

 

[eolesen]

The plastic trim is not being replaced in the MD80's! In fact not much of anything is being replaced with new. The old parts are being repaired if possible.

Have you visited a MD80 Heavy C check recently or at all?

[post="280185"][/post]​

Yes, actually, I have. In TUL several years back, and most recently about a year ago in STL on the conversion line.

I was referring to the trim which was replaced starting about five or six years ago, when we first started to introduce the Recaro seating and the adjustable headrests in Y.

 

[Buck]

Yes, actually, I have. In TUL several years back, and most recently about a year ago in STL on the conversion line.

I was referring to the trim which was replaced starting about five or six years ago, when we first started to introduce the Recaro seating and the adjustable headrests in Y.

[post="280228"][/post]​

The trim needs to be replaced again. In fact the cabins are in pretty bad shape cosmetically when the aircraft leave maintenance.

 

[FWAAA]

You are right about the upholstery and carpets being replaced on a regular basis and being cheap (ultracleans). But those new side panels are not cheap and the new seats (the whole assembly) designed by the person who designs the seats in luxury cars was also not cheap. You say that passengers told AA that they wanted these improvements. But they also want 1960s style airline service for SW prices.

[post="280182"][/post]​

The new seats were announced in the second quarter of 1997, when AMR earned an impressive $985 million. In 1998, AMR earned a record $1.3 billion.

Here's AA's 1997 Annual Report discussion of the new seats:

While arranging for new aircraft is important, we are not neglecting American’s current fleet. In 1997, we launched a $416 million interior refurbishment program. Every domestic aircraft will get a thorough interior refurbishment, including, for the first time in 20 years, a new interior color scheme. In addition, 106 of our MD-80 aircraft will be reconfigured to
include 20, rather than 14, first-class seats and will be used in high-frequency business markets where demand for first-class accommodations is strong.

The program includes the purchase of 70,000 new seats, which will provide more comfortable seating in both coach and first class on most domestic aircraft. In addition, the entire international fleet, as well as the widebodied aircraft
used on transcontinental routes, will be equipped with highly customized first-and business-class seats.

http://www.shareholder.com/aa/downloads/ar1997.pdf


Here's AA's 1998 Annual Report's discussion of why the upgrades to the fleet were important:

Service differentiation for premium customers has been a key strategy for American since it introduced the AAdvantage program in 1981. Our efforts to attract the high frequency business traveler continued in 1998 with the introduction of a new top-tier level in the AAdvantage program called Executive Platinum and the expansion of the first class cabin from 14 to 20 seats on more than 100 Super 80 aircraft deployed in key business markets. Facility enhancements included the introduction of Platinum Service Centers and of new Flagship Lounges for our international customers at several airports. American also opened a new Admirals Club in Tokyo in 1998 and has plans to expand or renovate several Clubs in 1999.

American is also in the midst of the largest and most dramatic aircraft interior refurbishment program in its history. In the next few years, more than 55 percent of the seats on American’s current fleet will be replaced with next-generation “slimlineâ€￾ seats. Many of those seats not replaced will be upgraded with power ports for personal computers, adjustable leather headrests, and personal reading lights. The refurbishment will also include new carpet, curtains, bulkhead tapestries and sidewalls.

http://www.shareholder.com/aa/downloads/ar1998.pdf

The interior fleet upgrades were necessary. No, they weren't cheap, but then again, nothing is cheap in the airline biz. Except AMTs, of course. They are willing to work each year for less. Been that way for almost 25 years. Why? Dunno. Many blame their union for over 23 years of concessions. Others recognize the glut of AMTs and the relatively high total compensation they command.

But with AA spending nearly $150 billion since it chose to invest over $400 million in new seats/bins/interiors, whining about it eight years later seems rather pointless, no?

Owens continues to whine about the JFK terminal replacement, despite its announcement in 1998; nearly seven years ago.

Anybody else see a lot of crying over spilled milk here?

Get over it and try to improve the future, anyone? Or continue to whine about the past?

 

[aafsc]

I guess the omnipotent twu believer aafsc is not going to answer my factual post.

Thats fine, I really didn't understand why I was sparring with a ramper that has no bearing on my career field, except to ride my coat tails when it comes to contract negotiations. :huh:

[post="280218"][/post]​

Ride your coatails? You make me laugh! One of the main points in my post is this fallacy that other groups ride your coatails will be disproven once and for all at NW when the few remaining AMTs there are either replaced or they cower in front of Steenland while all the "coattail riders" are still on the property earning their current salary. Now that the AMTs have been on their own for the past 6 years at NW, who are they (and you) going to blame when they get gang raped by NW management? Since the AMTs at NW rid themselves of the "coat tail riders" 6 years ago,how much AMT work has been subcontracted out? How many AMTs does NW say they need now? 2,200 was it? Down from 9,500.

As for me being "just a ramper", this just shows that you know nothing about me. I do this job because I like the flexability in scheduling. I can get 40 hours over 3 days and take 4 days off. And as of now, for me, the total compensation is still worth it. However, anything lower (like USAir) and I will leave. I have an advanced degree (as do some other rampers) and I am very confident I can make starting what I make now, I just won't have the flexible schedule I highly value. Also I am a private pilot, instrument rated, and hopefully I can get my commercial and muli-engine rating by the end of the year. So can I say that I am superior to you because I have an advanced degree and an airman's certificate while you just have and A and P (I assume you just have an A and P)? After all, you seem to feel you are too good to "spar with a ramper." In fact, it will probably pi$$ you off to know that this "ramper" is brake rider qualified on a few AA fleet types and has ridden the brakes many times.

And finally, I am NOT a TWU believer, but you are an AMFA believer. Yes, AMFA went into NW and told those guys that they should "make a stand for a hundred grand" and $60/hr and that with the "iron clad" layoff protection that they would be playing cards in the hangar for $60/hr before they would get laid off. Well, needless to say absolutely none of that has materialized but Delle sure did well and his retirement is assured; unlike those he "represents". Barnum Bailey was wrong, there is MORE than one born every minute and a lot of them obviously hold A and P tickets. The only difference between AMFA and the other unions is the different people at the top living the good life off the dues. In closing, I am ALL for you going to AMFA, there is no benefit for the rampers to be associated with the AMTs. In fact, maybe we could get a big raise if/when AA decides to dispose of you like NW is doing to their AMTs.

 

[777 fixer]

1. While putting new interiors, seats, bins, carpet, etc. into our domestic fleet was intended to make us competitive, were the passengers willing to pay more? Given the fact that a vast majority just look at price, our airplanes would be just as full if we had not done the interior upgrades. As for the 767-300s, enhancing those may be justified because they fly international where the yields are higher and we have to compete against the foreign airlines as well as DL, UA, etc.

2. The TWU actually gave up midnite cabin in the late 1990s. They were having so many problems with theft that AA begged the TWU to take midnite cabin back; only to contract it out again in 2003. It is easier to replace the AMTs than it is to replace the ramp. At NW, over time, they have reduced their AMTs by about half so only about 4,000to 4,500 remain. And they want to cut the remaining 4,500 in half which means that they feel they only need 2,200. That 2,200 can be easily replaced by the management people they are training and scabs (newhires, those currently there who will cross, and those laid off who feel they were screwed by AMFA). There are plenty of out of work AMTs. Just look at all those former UA AMTs in IND who were shaking their fists in the air when they were making $30/hr at UA but are now humbly working at AAR in IND in the same hangar on the same UA planes for the same UA managers for a LOT less. As far as ramp, the contractors are having a very difficult time finding people because of low wages and no benefits and a vast majority can't pass the drug tests and backgroud checks. In fact, at my previous station, they came over and asked if we wanted to work for them on our days off. Needless to say, no one was interested. So if the ramp was to walk, they would have to hire and process(backgroud and medical check, drug test, and finerprints for customs) and train (classroom portion and government mandated dangerous goods and hazardous awareness training) thousands of people all at once. Over at USAir, they gave the company everything it wanted. Large numbers of their long time employees have left or are leaving and they are having problems finding people to replace them. At my former city,US was right next to us and I can tell you they were (and probably still are) having big service problems with passenger baggage. So they can try to replace ramp but it would take a long time and be very very messy because when the ramp walks the crap hits the fan right of way.

[post="280067"][/post]​

2)You are ignoring a very important fact. The fact that the MD-80 got thier new seats and interiors in the late 90's when the airlines were charging whatever they wanted and people were paying it. So there goes your argument that people just look at price, back then they were not.

3)You are in denial, the same denial you seem to think AMT's are in, if you think the reasons you give will stop companies like NWA from hiring replacements. If they can do it for AMT's and FA's they can do it to you as well. And the fact that Alaska and AA have done this proves my point. You seem to think that every AMT that has been laid off over the past four years is chomping at the bit to work for companies like AAR or become a scab. Not true. A freind of mine who used to work for UAL at IND went to work for Otis Elevator. He had no intention of sticking around Indy waiting for some company like AAR to come around. And guess what, he's no the only one. More and more are bailing out of the airlines. You also seem to think that getting repalcement AMT's is easy. There's more to being a "replacement" than just knowing how to sign off the logbook.

 

[aafsc]

2)You are ignoring a very important fact. The fact that the MD-80 got thier new seats and interiors in the late 90's when the airlines were charging whatever they wanted and people were paying it. So there goes your argument that people just look at price, back then they were not.

3)You are in denial, the same denial you seem to think AMT's are in, if you think the reasons you give will stop companies like NWA from hiring replacements. If they can do it for AMT's and FA's they can do it to you as well. And the fact that Alaska and AA have done this proves my point. You seem to think that every AMT that has been laid off over the past four years is chomping at the bit to work for companies like AAR or become a scab. Not true. A freind of mine who used to work for UAL at IND went to work for Otis Elevator. He had no intention of sticking around Indy waiting for some company like AAR to come around. And guess what, he's no the only one. More and more are bailing out of the airlines. You also seem to think that getting repalcement AMT's is easy. There's more to being a "replacement" than just knowing how to sign off the logbook.

[post="280280"][/post]​

1. Yes, the airlines were charging whatever they wanted in the late 1990s and the passengers were very reluctantly paying as they bitterly complained. They were on the edge of rebellion and jetblue and the others came along and expanded quickly at the right time thus allowing the rebellion to succeed. I said in 1999 that this would happen.

2. As Lorenzo proved at EAL, everyone can be replaced-pilots, F/As, AMTs, and rampers. With the AMTs at EAL, they were forced to work OT on order to build up a lot of spare engines and components. That way when the strike came their inventories of spares were very full. But when the ramp walks, the operation stops immediately. Can they replace ramp? Absolutely. The question is whether they want an operation that is extremely unreliable with thousands of lost bags daily with many aircraft damages (this is what happened at EAL). And back then there wasn't all the security and background checks with drug tests. If/when my times comes at AA, I am prepared and will do something else.