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Good thing we gave away the farm to save AA from Bankruptcy and worked 7 years under extreme concessions.
I think the filing comes before 1/1/2010, we didnt save AA from anything. You cannot save this management team from themselves. Even Consulting Firms seem to leave shaking their heads.
I think the filing comes before 1/1/2010, we didnt save AA from anything. You cannot save this management team from themselves. Even Consulting Firms seem to leave shaking their heads.
OP
The Goose
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Who said a thing about saving the management "team" from themselves?
This is planned. With the aircraft retirements, there should have been a large layoff by now. This is the same tactic that was used by Carty (at the BOD's direction) after too many were left on the payroll for too long. Now, they have additional meat for the stew - if there should be a strike called (doubtful Little would do that unless directed to do so by AMR management/BOD), the cash won't last long.
"Oh goodness - we're running out of money". Anyone besides me remember that?
The twits in Centrepork and the board want to file for bankruptcy and are positioning for a default on its financing covenants. The argument then will be "we held off 'till the last minute, but...". After such pleading, we'll be expected to pitch in and help out, but ... As you well remember, they double-dipped (with the TWU's blessing) on the layoff numbers in 2003, and the about to do the triple dip.
As the saying goes - "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
My attitude? They can take three running jumps and go straight to hell.
eolesen
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- Jul 23, 2003
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Fitch has been warning about an AMR bankruptcy since 2001.
Only an idiot would believe the idea that a board or management team would proactively plan to go into bankruptcy. It's like believing someone can get cancer on purpose. You might be able to help matters along by smoking, not wearing sun protection, etc. but there's no guarantee you'll ever get it...
Only an idiot would believe the idea that a board or management team would proactively plan to go into bankruptcy. It's like believing someone can get cancer on purpose. You might be able to help matters along by smoking, not wearing sun protection, etc. but there's no guarantee you'll ever get it...
767 mechanic
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- Aug 8, 2004
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I believe it is easier to do a little wasteful spending. This will bring the numbers in the favor of the company during negotiations. Lets not forget about the mandatory head count in Tulsa due to the 2025 Vision plan. Does anybody know what the headcounts are on the various lines are?
Amen brotha! All of these anti management folks think they know everything about running a company...
TWU informer
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Only an idiot that wasnt proactively planning a Bankruptcy would continue to fly seats at a loss, using over manned employment in both management and union ranks without making drastic moves NOW. Oil and Fuel continue to rise, Arpey and his gang of Consulting Firms cannot make a decision or implement a consistent plan that allows for anything other than Bankruptcy.
Better get the Lawyers on the steps because the employees will not be threatened again without a barn burning session
What's magical about that date that leads you to suspect a Ch 11 filing before that date? Any objective evidence supporting that belief?
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Nothing other than all mediated labor negotiations will be moving forward between now and then.
h34r: Beyond that I cannot share.
jersey777
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I was not a finance major so I am not sure exactly the significance of AA raising cash yesterday by basically offering to mortgage its assets. But it sounds to be a prudent step to coast through this recession and does not sound like a company that is "planning" a bankruptcy filing.
Hopeful
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- Dec 21, 2002
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No to need to go bankrupt when the you have the TWU on the property to help with the concessionary raping. The unions will fold again like cheap suits and the executives will continue to receive their PUPS "because that is THEIR contract"...
There will always be money for them, because, like the pro management posters here say, PUP pay really doesn't cost the company anything.
So my advice to all of you here that know we are gonna get raped again with concessions....instead of complaining, make an impression on their on-time performance....
OP
The Goose
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Office boy, if you wish to call names, implied or otherwise, I can do that also but would prefer not to. How come Ralphie never jumps on you for this? Special dispensation?
By your own admission you no longer work at American, therefore, you haven't a clue what goes on there. What you do know is the skewed version from your buddies that still work there and think like you.
You do not see the sabotage done by the mismanagement to any outside work that comes in, nor will your friends tell you about that. You do not see the sabotage done to American's own work by mismanagement fools trying to make a name for themselves - your buds don't mention that to you either, do they?
Perhaps it's not as I think - perhaps the devils just want to get into the same situation as 2003 to wrest more concessions by their version of manipulating the books. It won't work this time.
Hopeful
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Gotta admit.....In your eyes, Eric.....AA can do no wrong and the unions are the ones who have mismanaged this company into the ground. You seem to put Arpey & Co. on a very high pedestal. It's not so hard to do when you have had a union in your pocket for decades.
It's amazing how the 2003 concessions were to save AA from bankruptcy, and now because of the economy, they want more concessions and "that's the reality of it all so don't expect any salary and benefit increases......sorry folks......we feel your pain.."
That is, unless you're an executive..
This thread is rife with the word "mismanagement," much like the discussions in 2003.
While AMR may have been completely mismanaged, it's not likely that mismanagement caused the current crisis any more than in 2001-03. Why? Maybe because nearly every airline is suffering. Continual damnation of management starts to sound like the word "wolf" when nearly all are in the same boat. If AA were the only airline in a cash crunch, the words wouldn't ring quite so hollow.
AA, UA, US, CO and even all-powerful DL are seeing their premium revenues fall (and continue to decline) even steeper than in the aftermath of September 11, 2001. Southwest has reported three consecutive quarterly losses. Oil is now higher than in the hurricane-induced price spike of September, 2005, despite a worldwide recession.
AA's current problems aren't due to its pensions. The problems aren't because of the pay of the workers. The problems aren't due to the $350 million or so paid out in stock to the PUP/PSP recipients over the past four years. Its problems are due to overcapacity of high-cost airline seats relative to the demand for those seats amid a severe recession that has decimated demand for first and business fares.
If anyone's to blame for the plight of the downtrodden TWU membership, fault lies with the TWU, and to a lesser extent, its members' collective failure to remove the TWU as its bargaining agent. One failed card drive in the past several years and nothing since then. Other airlines' mechanics have fired two unions in the time it's taken the AA TWU members to fire none.
While AMR may have been completely mismanaged, it's not likely that mismanagement caused the current crisis any more than in 2001-03. Why? Maybe because nearly every airline is suffering. Continual damnation of management starts to sound like the word "wolf" when nearly all are in the same boat. If AA were the only airline in a cash crunch, the words wouldn't ring quite so hollow.
AA, UA, US, CO and even all-powerful DL are seeing their premium revenues fall (and continue to decline) even steeper than in the aftermath of September 11, 2001. Southwest has reported three consecutive quarterly losses. Oil is now higher than in the hurricane-induced price spike of September, 2005, despite a worldwide recession.
AA's current problems aren't due to its pensions. The problems aren't because of the pay of the workers. The problems aren't due to the $350 million or so paid out in stock to the PUP/PSP recipients over the past four years. Its problems are due to overcapacity of high-cost airline seats relative to the demand for those seats amid a severe recession that has decimated demand for first and business fares.
If anyone's to blame for the plight of the downtrodden TWU membership, fault lies with the TWU, and to a lesser extent, its members' collective failure to remove the TWU as its bargaining agent. One failed card drive in the past several years and nothing since then. Other airlines' mechanics have fired two unions in the time it's taken the AA TWU members to fire none.
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