More F/A Recalls

[DCAflyer]

Well DCAflyer your about to see THIS thread pick up some serious steam. OK, I go on duty at 12am and am fairly close to getting a call at 5am for an open position. I wake up to check and see where I am on the list. My sleep is broken. OR ok before you say don't wake up and get your rest...fine. So I wake up at 9am and sit around all day checking, and checking the computer OR go about my daily business. Now I have been up ALL DAY and the evening comes. I go to bed at a reasonable hour of oh say 9 or 10pm. I get called at 2am to go to Europe and have to NOW be up all night? Here is another little scenario for you. I came in from the red-eye at 6:30am from the west coast. I go off my rest at around 5:30pm. Now I'm back on call and being exhausted head to bed at 10pm. ONLY to get called at 2am now to go to Europe? You MUST be joking to think that any normal person wouldn't be FATIGUED beyond the point of exhaustion. So with these two examples mentioned I WILL NOT be going to Europe and you can have my supervisor visit me personally to my house for our little counseling session. The system is WRONG and as mentioned when you pop a slide or don't perform to your ability in an emergency situation who's going to be at fault? The company or my tired @$$? Let the posts begin....

Again, and with all due respect, I have to say "it's your job." If you are truly exhausted because you've had an unbearable flying schedule, that's one thing to claim you are fatigued. In your first scenario, I am going to say what you thought I would... don't force yourself to wake up. If you get called, you get called. Why worry about it to the point where you are setting an alarm to get up and check to see if you are about to be woken up? Be that as it may, flights have to go out when they have to go out... and this is especially true of Transoceanic flights. If a European flight is going out at 4:00 in the morning, there's something seriously wrong to begin with and they have to get the plane to its destination to turn it back around again. Clearly in that situation, the scheduled crewmembers have conveniently "gotten sick" (i.e., they're not doing their jobs and because they're not doing theirs, you, as junior, are being called to do yours). But whatever the reason, the aricraft has to go out and either you, as next in line, are going to work it or someone else is going to get called at 2:00 a.m. to work it. As a reserve do I like it? Hell no, but it's a job and it's the job I chose. Your second scenario is somewhat different and I think anyone would be justified to claim fatigue if being asked to work back-to-back redeyes. That being said, I know people who have done it and survived. Hell, at jetBlue they have flight attendants work JFK-OAK-JFK turns where the return flight is a redeye (I have a friend who did that and then got called by scheduling the minute her legal rest was over). I'm not saying that's right or safe, just that things could be worse. But getting back to the topic at hand, this airline (or any) doesn't shut down just because crewmembers don't like being called in the middle of the night. Most reserves are complaining that they don't fly enough, so then for some to complain that they are tired in the middle of the night so that scheduling shouldn't even think of calling them (the audacity!!!), I say tough crap. I've been woken in the middle of the night and so has every flight attendant I know, and sometimes operations are such that our jobs demand that we work long hours at inconvenient times with minimal legal rest. That's all I'm saying!!!

 

[EMBFA]

NY cabs are regulated, PHL cabs are not. They can refuse you, even if you kick up a fuss with the police they will say they find you suspicious or your destination is unsafe. They will not leave that line for a $7 fare, and don't believe you if you tell them you will tip well. And lastly, it's just Philadelphia... if you've been here you know what i mean lol





If there are "other" F/As who think they are more noble about their job, they are free to bid reserve whenever they like if they feel the integrity of the operation is at stake, or they can negotiate better contracts to attract better quality F/As than us scumbags who will work for 20K but require at least six hours of sleep a day.

 

[FlightChic]

To DCAFlyer:
All I'm going to say is that unless you are a PHL based reserve f/a under this horrid system who has lived through the horror and abuse that we get on a daily basis from scheduling, mgmt, and sometimes even fellow f/a who don't understand what we go through to keep this operation together, then you need to keep your mouth shut and not comment on things that you don't know about. You have no idea what we go through. You have no idea what it is like to try and get a cab. You have no idea what it is like coming off a trip in the morning and then being called in the middle of the night when you are so exhausted from being up for so long. If you did an all nighter the night before, chances are you have had any sleep for two nights. Or imagine being on call for several days but you are in the top ten to be called. You normally would be called early in the morning when you are in the top ten, so you go ahead and get up and get ready for a trip. You sit and wait by the computer all day long. Then it's time for future to call you but somehow they don't get to you. They stop before they get to your name so you are in the top ten again. Then it's the same thing all over again the following day. You are tired, stressed, and going crazy because you keep thinking you will be going on a trip and you feel like you can't even run to the store or cook a good meal because scheduling will call. You're exhausted from not being able to sleep because you are afraid scheduling will call you in the middle of the night or at 5am and you don't want to get a no contact. I could go on and on with personal examples but I won't because no matter what we say you will never understand so I am not even going to try and make you understand. I will say this, we are not robots, we are human beings. Most human beings cannot function when they are up for 24 or 32 hours or longer. I know I can't. Futhermore, because I am a human being, I should be treated with dignity and respect, not like an effin piece of sh!t. I make it a point to treat others with dignity and respect and I expect the same in return. Also, it is not OK for the company to make us work under conditions like this. If we had shifts where I knew I had a 12 hour rest in the daytime but then could be called out in the middle of the night for a transatlantic trip, then I would most definitely go because I would have had my rest and would be expecting it and ready. In PHL, we could be called out at any time of the day or night. Doing a BUF turn late at night does not even compare to working a trip across the pond. If they called me to do one leg to MHT or ALB then I would probably go. Now if they call me for a trip to FCO then I absolutely will not go if I am fatigued. You can say it's my job to do whatever scheduling says all you want but I know my limitations and I know what is safe and what it is not safe. The way our job is designed it simply is not safe to work such a long flight if you are exhausted just like it is dangerous to drive your car if you are sleepy or operate machinery. No matter how you look at it, it isn't safe. We're not trying to be lazy. We just don't want to put others as well as ourselves in a possibly dangerous situation. Why don't you come to PHL this summer and sit reserve and see how you like it!

To Signals:
That's not how it works in PHL. Cab drivers do refuse to give you a ride. You can call every cab company in the city but good luck with that!

 

[DCAflyer]

If there are "other" F/As who think they are more noble about their job, they are free to bid reserve whenever they like if they feel the integrity of the operation is at stake, or they can negotiate better contracts to attract better quality F/As than us scumbags who will work for 20K but require at least six hours of sleep a day.

EMBFA, I absolutely agree with you that a better reserve system should be negotiated. I am not optimistic, however, that it will be given the priority it deserves by MF or the senior mamas. The sad fact of the matter is that some (senior) people simply don't care about the plight of reserves... after all, there are uniforms and glassware to worry about!

 

[Travelpro72]

Well DCAflyer I believe my first scenario is valid as well. As stated by flightchic you know your close to being called in the am so you sort of check the computer and get showered so your not scrambling at the last minute for your big whopping 1.5 hours from the ring of the phone to the boarding of a flight. I'm sure you mean well but your ignorance to the matter shows that you have NEVER been based in PHL on reserve under this system. Shifts are needed and they are needed NOW. Until the company changes it be it on their own or through a new contract you will see f/a's taking no contacts or calling out fatigued. With all due respect why not come to PHL and give it a try. I'm sure you'll just love that wee hour call out to fly to Europe.

 

[DCAflyer]

FlightChik,

I absolutely agree with you and support 12-hour shifts. Other than that, everything you described is exactly the way it was before the buckets. 24-hour shifts for days on end, only to not fly, or to have back-to-back trips. I did it... I got them and I flew them... I had six duty days in a row where I flew a one-day, then a four, then another one-day, and every day it was multiple legs. I get what you are saying. But it sounds like you are working yourself up and it's really doing you more harm than anyone else. Either scheduling is going to call or they aren't, nothing about that has changed. As far as I know, this airline always had 24 hour shifts, so nothing about that has changed. But you complained about getting a call in the middle of the night when you were tired... I got those calls too, nothing has changed... if that was a criteria for scheduling to use, nobody would get early a.m. calls, but that is not the way this industry works. I understand your being upset about the rapist... I worked when the f-ing DC snipers were on the loose indiscriminately shooting random people; it got me to pay more attention to my surroundings but I managed to get to my job. I was called at 3:30 a.m. as soon as flights resumed after 9/11 (and after hearing the plane go into the Pentagon) to get to the airport at 5:00 a.m. to be limoed to BWI to work a transcon at 7:00 a.m. because all the senior mamas were afraid to fly. We were min-staffed on a completely full 321. Hell, we were all afraid to fly but I did it, not only because it was my job, but also because there were thousands of people who were not with their children when the planes flew into the buildings, and for several days afterwards.


But please explain to me how what you've complained about is any different than pre-buckets. Or how things are different in PHL (besides the taxi situation, which I didn't know about). I know the buckets suck and I know you don't have as much control over your trips, but that's not what you've complained about.

 

[FlightChic]

FlightChik,

I absolutely agree with you and support 12-hour shifts. Other than that, everything you described is exactly the way it was before the buckets. 24-hour shifts for days on end, only to not fly, or to have back-to-back trips. I did it... I got them and I flew them... I had six duty days in a row where I flew a one-day, then a four, then another one-day, and every day it was multiple legs.
I did too before the bucket system. I flew trips back to back day after day. I was called all times of the day. I still went. It wasn't a problem. I was even in the transatlantic division and I got those dreaded midnight phone calls. I did go to the airport for those 2 am departures even though it was snowing like crazy and I was scared to drive in the snow and couldn't see. I did it because I was at least somewhat rested. You see, my flights in the ITD didn't leave until 8pm. I never had to worry about being quickcalled early in the morning or late at night or anything like that. Yes, scheduling could call me at 6am but my flight didn't leave until 8pm. I had time to rest. I even had to fly three transatlantic trips back to back at times. It was brutal but I did it.

I get what you are saying. But it sounds like you are working yourself up and it's really doing you more harm than anyone else.
No I'm not.

Either scheduling is going to call or they aren't, nothing about that has changed. As far as I know, this airline always had 24 hour shifts, so nothing about that has changed.
Yes it has. See my comment above. Like I said in an earlier post, taking a late night flt to BUF doesn't compare to FCO. It just doesn't.

But you complained about getting a call in the middle of the night when you were tired... I got those calls too, nothing has changed... if that was a criteria for scheduling to use, nobody would get early a.m. calls, but that is not the way this industry works.
So you're telling me scheduling calls you to go to Rome or Athens at 12am? Do you like that? Do you think it is right? How do you feel when you work those trips?

I understand your being upset about the rapist... I worked when the f-ing DC snipers were on the loose indiscriminately shooting random people; it got me to pay more attention to my surroundings but I managed to get to my job.
I'm not upset about the rapist. I came in late at night and left very early before sunrise a few times over the last two weeks and I just remained vigilent and told my roommates I was coming. I didn't work myself up over that. We were laughing because he probably works at the airport on the ramp.

I was called at 3:30 a.m. as soon as flights resumed after 9/11 (and after hearing the plane go into the Pentagon) to get to the airport at 5:00 a.m. to be limoed to BWI to work a transcon at 7:00 a.m. because all the senior mamas were afraid to fly. We were min-staffed on a completely full 321. Hell, we were all afraid to fly but I did it, not only because it was my job, but also because there were thousands of people who were not with their children when the planes flew into the buildings, and for several days afterwards.
I flew then too. I worked the first flight to MAD and we also were understaffed with 6 f/as with a full service and a full plane. Remember the days when we had menus, hot towels, head sets, bev. service, push pull with wine and water offered with food, coffee service, then duty free, then water/oj services, then arrival with full meals and beverage service, and then forms. Then in Envoy we had that wonderful service with only two f/as in the front when we truly needed three for the type of service we used to do. We were all trying to help each other the whole time and the pax were scared and we flew over NYC and could see all the smoke. Everyone was upset.

But please explain to me how what you've complained about is any different than pre-buckets. Or how things are different in PHL (besides the taxi situation, which I didn't know about). I know the buckets suck and I know you don't have as much control over your trips, but that's not what you've complained about.
When I was with US Airways before those stupid buckets, ITD was a separate division. Therefore, no late night transatlantic quick calls unless you were in the division. If you were in it, you knew your flight was going to leave in the evening so there was not a problem with being called out at any time of day or night. You knew you could sleep in if you wanted to or take a nap in the afternoon. With us being on call 24 hours a day with flights that leave at all times of the day or night, then it is totally different. Like I said before, flying to Europe at 2am is nothing like flying to BUF or even to LAS in the middle of the night. I got calls like that when I did domestic in the very beginning before the LTO system and I did it, but they were short flights. It's not the same. You've never experienced it so I don't think you will ever understand although you are trying to.

 

[FlightChic]

Some of you may agree with me and some of you may not agree with me as far as the late night transatlantic quick calls. That is fine either way. I know how I feel about the situation and I am going to do what is right for me. With that being said, let's not discuss this any further. Instead, let's get back to the topic of the thread. So, what do you all think about them recalling more f/as? I wonder how many will actually show up this next round. If I've been here 8 years and am only making $1200 a month then there is no way some of these people can survive on making $18 dollars an hour. Yikes! I bet many will quit very soon. It's too bad because we are no longer the airline where we were originally hired.

 

[AstroLounge]

All I can say is DCAFlyer really DOESN'T Get It. Being based at BOS/LGA/DCA is a helluva lot different than being in PHL/CLT or PIT (back in the day). And the issue of staffing TransAtl irregular operations is a MUCH Bigger deal than recrewing the 0700 Shuttle to LGA. Every Reserve knows their obligation to be AVAILABLE for assignment for The Company when they are on duty. Where the dilemma lies is when mechanicals/weather/and operational screwups happen to a TransAtl schedule that has 19 destinations out of PHL alone. People have lives and if you are an EARLY Riser (based on habit or having kids) HOW long is it really feasible to make the person BE AVAILABLE for SCHEDULE? It is absolutely ludicrous to expect people to be ON CALL for 24hours a day and up to 6days at a stretch. When these TransAtl flights need recrewing there is a helluva lot going on........upset pax, tempers flaring, stressed Gate Agents, airplanes that are rarely RECATERED (due to the delay) and now a group of F/A's that are suddenly Quick Called to work an airplane they are unfamiliar with. Everyone is not itching to do International (and that is their perogative) and even though every F/A is trained ON The Aircraft, most people would like to have a comfort zone in knowing what the hell they are doing and where things are. Expecting Reserves to be ON DUTY for these periods with the expanded service that is offered is not only a DISSERVICE to our Pax but an accident waiting to happen. (And to make my point more apparent- since you appear to be based in DCA......ask 9 Reserves how they would feel being summoned late at night to be shipped up to PHL to crew ROME that will be running 7hours late and no Italian LODO avail for the flight. And I'll bet they'd tell you, FU!)

 

[Twicebaked]

For those of you who get called in the middle of the night like that, a friend of mine said they called him and he said he had been on duty all day and was up early in the morning and was too fatigued to fly and scheduling was giving him problems and threatening to get him fired and they basically would not take no for an answer. He stood firm and did not go on the trip but he had to really fight with the schedulers and with supervisors. Just know that if you are too fatigued and it isn't safe for you to fly then don't let scheduling bully you into going. They don't have the authority to get you fired! You know your limits and what you are capable of doing and just know that if you truly are too tired and you go on the trip and you pop a slide or make a major mistake or can't perform in an emergency because you are so tired you will be the one in trouble, not scheduling. They can't force you and don't let them!

What you do is accept the trip. You inform the scheduler that you will be contacting the FAA that you are being forced to fly fatigued and that you will be having the tape pulled by them. Or, you tell scheduling to hold on a get the FAA and AFA on 3 way/conference call. Once you do, ask the question. "I am understanding you correctly that you are making me fly even though I told you I was fatigued....is that correct"? When they say "yes"..... You say "Okay Great! I have the FAA on the line with us......"

Remember folks....Schedulers DO NOT have the authority to fire you. They are JUST EMPLOYEES!!! Do not let them talk down to you or treat you like sh!t!! Stand up for yourselves. You would if another flight attendant treated you like that!!!!

 

[Twicebaked]

As for the sexual predator in the area (and this is the first I'm hearing about it, so forgive me if it's been discussed here before) the flight attendants need to get the company, union, and airport involved.

What is the company or union going to do???? The have no control over what happens in the cities in which we reside.

The gentleman in question is not running around attacking people. He is on the governments list of preditors. He has done his time and is now living in the area....... Let's not make this into something it isn't. I am not saying that people should not be aware, but there is NOT an attacker on the lose. Again, the company nor union can do anything.

 

[N965VJ]

<SNIP> He is on the governments list of preditors.

Am I to understand you are saying that someone listed as a sexual predator is not dangerous?

Why do you suppose such lists exist?

 

[Twicebaked]

Am I to understand you are saying that someone listed as a sexual predator is not dangerous?

Why do you suppose such lists exist?

Typical US Aviation form.........twist everything..................

Reread my post

 

[N965VJ]

I read it really slow with my lips moving.

 

[Twicebaked]

I read it really slow with my lips moving.

Well, let me help you with the big part.........

"I am not saying that people should not be aware, but there is NOT an attacker on the lose."

Furthermore, he (was) is a child molester and the conviction was 20 YEARS AGO!!! It seems as our old hags have nothing to worry about.

Go ahead and twist that one.