MidAtlantic--The Promised Land of Zero Opportunity

[mlt]

Has anyone taken the time to read the language for your work group at MidAtlantic?
I have been reviewing the contract for MidAtlantic flight attendants. Our flight attendants who have been promised ''jobs of opportunity'' at MidAtlantic will be making a grand total of $1300 per month. Imagine 18-20 days per month, 16 hour duty days and this is the value our Union Busters place on our colleagues. Flight attendants will accrue a total of 18 hours of sick time per year, however they will not be credited with the time until December 31 of the year they accrued the time.
God Help Us!!

 

[DorkDriver]

That's what a FA makes at PSA. What's the problem?

 

[ITRADE]

F.U.D.

 

[Bradly71]

When you break that pay down to the actual days worked and actual hours worked, what is so bad about it? It is less than before all the cuts, but still better than min wage. I'm not dogging them or you, it's just that things need to be kept in perspective. I flew for ATA for 6 months before going to res/cust svc at US and over at ATA, I started flying there for what amounted to $7.85 an hour, that was only 4 years ago. I have friends that work there still and they get about the same, works out to about $9.60 an hour for time worked.

I agree that in alot of instances FA's are underpaid and under appreciated, but unfortunately that is the way of the industry for the time being. Keep in mind that no one is putting a gun to their head forcing them to be a FA. They have the choice to do other things, just as all who remain with US on an active basis do.

 

[airlineorphan]

[blockquote]
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On 1/28/2003 6:43:21 AM mlt wrote:

Has anyone taken the time to read the language for your work group at MidAtlantic?

I have been reviewing the contract for MidAtlantic flight attendants. Our flight attendants who have been promised 'jobs of opportunity' at MidAtlantic will be making a grand total of $1300 per month. Imagine 18-20 days per month, 16 hour duty days and this is the value our Union Busters place on our colleagues. Flight attendants will accrue a total of 18 hours of sick time per year, however they will not be credited with the time until December 31 of the year they accrued the time.

God Help Us!!
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[/blockquote]

Actually, at a starting wage in the $13/HOUR range, the monthly gross will be considerably less than $1300. It'll be less than $1000 at guarantee and less than 1200 at 85 hrs. Knock off payroll taxes and such, and the take home will be pretty pathetic. By comparison, Comair F/A's start out only a little below what mainline US Airways F/A's start out at.

And since DorkDriver raised it, F/O's at PSA deserve more than they are getting too, IMHO.

-Airlineorphan

P.S. If you want to take a look at the American Eagle contract language Midatlantic will be based upon, here's the url: http://www.afa-ae-web.org/T_O_C.htm Yeesh!

 

[PITbull]

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On 1/28/2003 11:32:06 AM Bradly71 wrote:

When you break that pay down to the actual days worked and actual hours worked, what is so bad about it? It is less than before all the cuts, but still better than min wage. I'm not dogging them or you, it's just that things need to be kept in perspective. I flew for ATA for 6 months before going to res/cust svc at US and over at ATA, I started flying there for what amounted to $7.85 an hour, that was only 4 years ago. I have friends that work there still and they get about the same, works out to about $9.60 an hour for time worked.

I agree that in alot of instances FA's are underpaid and under appreciated, but unfortunately that is the way of the industry for the time being. Keep in mind that no one is putting a gun to their head forcing them to be a FA. They have the choice to do other things, just as all who remain with US on an active basis do.
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[/blockquote]

The problem with the pay at Mid Atlantic, and the difference between what, for instance a Res agent makes, or customer service, is the flight attendants at Mid (wonderful) Atlantic work 20 hour work weeks, VS your 40 hour average work week. Plus, Customer service folks or any one who works shift work or 9-5 get to eat out of their own refrigerators, use their own toilets, sleep in their own beds; Flight crews have to eat their meals out; another major cost to endure...

Very different.

Every Unionized worker should fight for a livable wage; be able to pay bills on time, and live respectably. As the economy improves folks will either fight for a better wage or leave. The wholly owns presently, have a 42% turnover of employement.... your thread above sounds like management words.

When you speak to looking for another profession; YES this is America, BUT, that is why IT IS LEGAL TO PROTEST IN THIS COUNTRY TO MAKE CHANGE HAPPEN! And, by the by, we are UNION! Soooooooooo, that wage is NOT OK! OK?

 

[dfw79]

You are Union...a lot of good that has done to keep people from getting furloughed and have their pay cut. Times have changed and unions are weaker than they have ever been.

 

[Bradly71]

"You are Union...a lot of good that has done to keep people from getting furloughed and have their pay cut.Times have changed and unions are weaker than they have ever been."

I have to agree totally with this comment. The unions have just done a wonderfull job of protecting employees and all the other things they once promised - LAUGH. However, as stated above, times have changed, unions are weaker, and at the end of the day may not even be at US Airways.

Some of the posts on here take me back to the "CHAOS" days, what a way to inspire ones coworkers and gather support. That was the begining of the end for inter-work group relations in the company, but that is off the point. You state that in res/cust svc things seem so good because we had the ability to sleep in our own bed and eat from our own fridges. Well, last I checked I didn't have anyone paying me to do my job, then paying me some money for the down time I had at home, paying for the room I slept in, and allowing me a per diem for some food. If I have missed a sign up sheet for that, I'd like to get a second chance at it because I wasn't exactly high on the seniority list in my dept and didn't make what people would like one to think we did and I sure as h*** didn't work M-F 9 to 5.

As for the pay issue, which was the original topic of these posts, I have friends that are FA's, they don't make much money, but they love their jobs and would do it no matter what the pay. Sure the pay could be better, I never said it couldn't. What I did say, is that like many have said on here, if some one is that unhappy with their job, move on. I loved my job with US, I planned to retire from it.. then I was furloughed. Now I do work M-F, 8 to 4, weekends and holidays off, and make $8.50 more on the hour than I did at US. However, even with that.. if they were to reopen our office and call us back.. I'd be there in a heartbeat, that is how much I loved the job. I wish I could have transferred to stay with the company but I couldn't for family reasons (before anyone even brings that up).

I've rambled on and I do appologize, but I stand by my statement, my opinion only..not the gospel by any means.. "If you don't like the pay and it bothers you that much, move on.. no one makes you stay with the job".

 

[Mike W]

I've been an employee-at-will with this company.It sucked.I hate to think how much worse it would have been had our management been able to do whatever they wanted.You may not like the extortion packages,but at least they were negotiated and you had a chance to vote on them.Those employees who were ramp or customer service back in '91 remember the royal screw job we received from Seth and his boys.There's a reason why US Airways is one of the most heavily unionized airlines in the industry.

 

[PITbull]

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On 1/28/2003 1:40:38 PM Bradly71 wrote:

"You are Union...a lot of good that has done to keep people from getting furloughed and have their pay cut.Times have changed and unions are weaker than they have ever been."

I have to agree totally with this comment. The unions have just done a wonderfull job of protecting employees and all the other things they once promised - LAUGH. However, as stated above, times have changed, unions are weaker, and at the end of the day may not even be at US Airways.

Some of the posts on here take me back to the "CHAOS" days, what a way to inspire ones coworkers and gather support. That was the begining of the end for inter-work group relations in the company, but that is off the point. You state that in res/cust svc things seem so good because we had the ability to sleep in our own bed and eat from our own fridges. Well, last I checked I didn't have anyone paying me to do my job, then paying me some money for the down time I had at home, paying for the room I slept in, and allowing me a per diem for some food. If I have missed a sign up sheet for that, I'd like to get a second chance at it because I wasn't exactly high on the seniority list in my dept and didn't make what people would like one to think we did and I sure as h*** didn't work M-F 9 to 5.

As for the pay issue, which was the original topic of these posts, I have friends that are FA's, they don't make much money, but they love their jobs and would do it no matter what the pay. Sure the pay could be better, I never said it couldn't. What I did say, is that like many have said on here, if some one is that unhappy with their job, move on. I loved my job with US, I planned to retire from it.. then I was furloughed. Now I do work M-F, 8 to 4, weekends and holidays off, and make $8.50 more on the hour than I did at US. However, even with that.. if they were to reopen our office and call us back.. I'd be there in a heartbeat, that is how much I loved the job. I wish I could have transferred to stay with the company but I couldn't for family reasons (before anyone even brings that up).

I've rambled on and I do appologize, but I stand by my statement, my opinion only..not the gospel by any means.. "If you don't like the pay and it bothers you that much, move on.. no one makes you stay with the job".





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[/blockquote]

You are speaking as a furloughed employee. One could make the argument that you perhaps are hoping or trying to convince those who speak of their plight and "unhappiness with the present give backs, that they should leave or quit. One might make the argument that your words make one feel guilty for having such emotion and since no one has a "gun to the head" to stay, then leave...hmmm, interesting. One could surmise that you want folks to leave so you can get called back.

Let me give you a perspective from one that has been here for many, many years, we folks who are left here have just as much right to voice a discontentment than one who has the right to voice submission and "I just love my job at any cost" retorhic. For many who have been forced to concede because of those who are fearful of "what the world would be like without USAirways", will complain, and that in the future that complaint will elicit change for those of you may and will come back.

Have I personally done other jobs, and do I presently...damn straight! Do I think this job is the greatest there is...damn NOT! Do many of us stay because of the years of investment, and closing on retirement vestment... damn straight! Most normal thinking folks do not love a job that can not afford them a respectable living. No one wants to work two or theree jobs to make ends meet. If and when econoomy turns, so will the demands...get it? So, looks like you will have to wait a little longer, cause we aren't leaving and we will still press on and voice for MORE!

 

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
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On 1/28/2003 1:02:03 PM dfw79 wrote:

You are Union...a lot of good that has done to keep people from getting furloughed and have their pay cut. Times have changed and unions are weaker than they have ever been.
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[/blockquote]


May be your perception is weak. Dock workers in California would beg to differ with your opinion. There has been a decline in union membership in the private secter from the 80's to present, no doubt. And, I believe it is for various reasons, weakness NOT being one of them. Union Leaders have been lax on communicating with their members and in keeping the "collective spirit" alive. One reason for that is because there has been this movement to bring management an Labor leaders to drink from the same "fountain".Exp. Labor having board seats. Management strategizes on how to "subtley" bring labor leaders to "think" like management, takes a long time, then bingo, look what can happen....have leaders talking from the same mouth as management. That is the problem; not the members weakness. It's the Labor leaders that get elected by "snowing" their members.

Leaders have to start listening to their members and sharing information. Can't bring members up to speed last minute and expect members to muster up a fight to protect their agreements. Especially, in light of the Ultimate FEAR, losing your job.

 

[Bradly71]

Some of you people cease to amaze me. Heaven forbid someone, who also IS a union member (even though it is by force), express an opinion that perhaps doesn't agree with yours. I did not make any derogatory comments or "slam" anyone in my posts, however some of you have come close to doing that in yours. I am happy for you that you were able to keep your job for the time being, and maybe even until retirement. The fact that you plan to stay awhile has no bearing on my situation because we are in two different work groups. It is unfortunate though that the "Jurrasic Park" crowd at US fails to see others opinions with any validity. I have read the other replies here several times, trying to understand what was attempting to be said, it is obvious that no one else has done the same. I am truly sorry to see such negative attitudes on this board. In another post I even saw someone reply with something close to "don't say that on here, management reads this and we don't want them to know". People like that and the replies on here almost make me wish the airline would go under and it just all be over, but it is only a passing thought.

 

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
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On 1/29/2003 8:49:25 AM Bradly71 wrote:

Some of you people cease to amaze me. Heaven forbid someone, who also IS a union member (even though it is by force), express an opinion that perhaps doesn't agree with yours. I did not make any derogatory comments or "slam" anyone in my posts, however some of you have come close to doing that in yours. I am happy for you that you were able to keep your job for the time being, and maybe even until retirement. The fact that you plan to stay awhile has no bearing on my situation because we are in two different work groups. It is unfortunate though that the "Jurrasic Park" crowd at US fails to see others opinions with any validity. I have read the other replies here several times, trying to understand what was attempting to be said, it is obvious that no one else has done the same. I am truly sorry to see such negative attitudes on this board. In another post I even saw someone reply with something close to "don't say that on here, management reads this and we don't want them to know". People like that and the replies on here almost make me wish the airline would go under and it just all be over, but it is only a passing thought.
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[/blockquote]


Sorry if the threads seem hostile. But, you make statements that are negative against unions, and the you make another statement that states you are union by force, leads me to believe you are blaming unions for the mess that U is in.

We "rank and filers", are in no way responsible for the condition of U, even before 9/11. We "rankers" came to work every day and did our jobs. This company profitted like crazy from 1995 until 2000.

I believe part of the plan to make the "merger" happen and get approval, was to show that U and UAL needed eachother to make it, so U started to lose money...think about that a little.

Merger failed, and in August (before 9/11, company is coming to all of labor and "crying" wooh is me". Metor jet needs to be "revamped with pay issues, or it goes cause we can't compete against South West, according to the company, and WE NEED RJS ASAP. NO FUEL HEDGED by mangement, nooo that would have been to "smart".

Please, I am over the union bashing, AND CORPORATE IS ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD NOW CHANGING THEIR NAMES TO SOMETHING ELSE BECAUSE WE KNOW WHO THEY ARE! And guess what, we know who they are inspite of their handle name change.

 

[mlt]

AirlineOrphan,
I stand corrected on the sick time. It should read 30 hours. I attempted to multiply pre-coffee; Big mistake!!

To determine the monthly salary I used the 2-3 yr seniority salary as most of our involuntary furloughees are in this category.


Bradly71,
I do not doubt for one minute that your job was fulfilling even though you were making minimum wage. I just finished a book "Nickel & Dimed" about the plight of the working poor in America. It appears most minimum wage earners take great pride in their work, even when knowing they are being exploited. The following is not intended to inflame the debate, only to better understand. How did you afford to pay rent/mortgage, car payment and maintenance, utilities, insurance, home repair, food, medical co-pays, prescriptions, etc on minimum wage?

 

[Bradly71]

Umm.... what in the world gave you the idea that I worked for minimum wage at US? Perhaps my statment about making $8.50/hr more now made you think that I was, but I was not. What I make at the moment does nothing for either side of the discussion, but we shall leave it that it is over $25.00/hr with a firm my parents own. How I made my house payments and car payments and so on also don't really aide either side. I did it like anyone else did though, I worked and budgeted. I know everyone's situation is different and this thread has gotten way off the point from a discussion on the pay issue with the contract to personal shots at one another and quite a negative tone. However, in case it would make you understand something about my thoughts on the matter.. then fine :

Bradly71 = 31/GWM/Indiana/Bachelors In Fine Arts/Husband is Corporate Attorney for a major pharmaceutical company / worked for US for 3 1/2 years total.

I really don't see any further need for talk on this subject unless we stick to the topic.