Light Years
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- Aug 27, 2002
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PBRmeASAP said:
LMFAO! Riiiiiiiiight....
I think you'd be more likely to spot a unicorn wandering around Terminal F than hear those words uttered!
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Mesa To Leave Us Airways Express?
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
LMFAO! Riiiiiiiiight....
I think you'd be more likely to spot a unicorn wandering around Terminal F than hear those words uttered!
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
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- #32
ringmaruf said:
You could be right, though I should have been a little more specific in my post about the CRJ's Mesa is getting this year that didn't have a home yet (as of issuing the quarterly report). They're -900's with the ability to convert to -700's (or vice versa, I don't remember which), not -200's. Mesa actually has no more -200's on order for delivery in 2005 or beyond, at least as of the latest quarterly report.
Of course, nothing presumably prevents Mesa from converting those to -200's if need be.
Jim
Light Years said:LMFAO! Riiiiiiiiight....
I think you'd be more likely to spot a unicorn wandering around Terminal F than hear those words uttered!
[post="266592"][/post]
To be totally honest, PSA if far from a gem either.....Some of the PSA crews are just as bad as the MESA stereotype, and I've found MESA crews to be much easier to work with.
PSAs OTP is nothing to brag about and their CRJs seem to have a ton of maintenance problems. IMO, CHQ is our best regional (in my experience as a CSA and non-rev).
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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- #34
Ring and sfb,
read about the 3rd paragraph in DL's press release:
In addition, the economics of the agreement allow Delta to place Freedom Airlines' Bombardier CRJ200 regional jets into Delta Connection service in lieu of 30 Fairchild Dornier aircraft previously operated for Delta by Atlantic Coast Airlines (now FLYi, Inc.).
DL did not want to take the FRJs and apparently JO was willing to take them for DL in return for getting his foot in the door.
Your other reasons are valid but I suspect the reason above was primary.
read about the 3rd paragraph in DL's press release:
In addition, the economics of the agreement allow Delta to place Freedom Airlines' Bombardier CRJ200 regional jets into Delta Connection service in lieu of 30 Fairchild Dornier aircraft previously operated for Delta by Atlantic Coast Airlines (now FLYi, Inc.).
DL did not want to take the FRJs and apparently JO was willing to take them for DL in return for getting his foot in the door.
Your other reasons are valid but I suspect the reason above was primary.
WorldTraveler:
You seem to be suggesting that Mesa would take responsibility of the FRJ fleet from ACA/FlyI on behalf of DAL, due to DAL's contract with ACA/FlyI.
I'm not sure this is the intent of the statement you quoted. I think the intent is DAL trying to say "we are not adding 30 new RJ's to the fleet, rather replacing 30 RJ's exiting the fleet."
I would be very surprised if Mesa takes on the FRJ's.
You seem to be suggesting that Mesa would take responsibility of the FRJ fleet from ACA/FlyI on behalf of DAL, due to DAL's contract with ACA/FlyI.
I'm not sure this is the intent of the statement you quoted. I think the intent is DAL trying to say "we are not adding 30 new RJ's to the fleet, rather replacing 30 RJ's exiting the fleet."
I would be very surprised if Mesa takes on the FRJ's.
OP
USA320Pilot
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- May 18, 2003
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- #36
Mesa Air partners with Delta - Deal may change dynamics of US Airways relationship
"New contracts aren't big news on their own, but this one is key because it begins to answer the question of where Mesa is going to put the 59 regional jets it operates for ailing US Airways if that carrier fails or merges and no longer needs them. US Airways, which accounts for 39 percent of Mesa's passenger revenue, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection last fall"
"This is the first step in a number of steps to restructure Mesa and further diversify our risk," Mesa CEO Jonathan Ornstein said.
He said the company, one of the country's largest regional airlines with $897 million in annual revenue, is pursuing other opportunities for the other 29 aircraft. He declined to be more specific.
United, a current Mesa partner, is most often mentioned as a likely candidate because it lost an airline partner to US Airways in a game of musical chairs going on in the industry.
Even though it's moving ahead as if the US Airways business is going away, Ornstein said Wednesday that he's still weighing an investment in the deal. "We are still looking at opportunities and continue to discuss that with the various parties," Ornstein said. He said he expects to make a decision "sooner rather than later."
See Story
USA320Pilot comments: US Airways' senior management has made it known that they were not satisfied with Mesa's operational performance and that they operated fligths with little or no revenue and then charge US Airways for the flight per the "fee for service" agreement. Moreover, there is reason to believe this is more of a situation where Mesa was strong-armed and forced out by US Airways following the Air Wisconsin deal and Mesa needed a home for its aircraft, which they have found for about 50% of their US Airways Express dedicated RJs.
Apparently with 59 Mesa and 15 Chautauqua 50-seat RJs (for a total of 74 50-seat RJs) leaving US Airways Express, US Airways now has a need for the 70 Air Wisconsin 50-seat CRJ-200s.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
"New contracts aren't big news on their own, but this one is key because it begins to answer the question of where Mesa is going to put the 59 regional jets it operates for ailing US Airways if that carrier fails or merges and no longer needs them. US Airways, which accounts for 39 percent of Mesa's passenger revenue, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection last fall"
"This is the first step in a number of steps to restructure Mesa and further diversify our risk," Mesa CEO Jonathan Ornstein said.
He said the company, one of the country's largest regional airlines with $897 million in annual revenue, is pursuing other opportunities for the other 29 aircraft. He declined to be more specific.
United, a current Mesa partner, is most often mentioned as a likely candidate because it lost an airline partner to US Airways in a game of musical chairs going on in the industry.
Even though it's moving ahead as if the US Airways business is going away, Ornstein said Wednesday that he's still weighing an investment in the deal. "We are still looking at opportunities and continue to discuss that with the various parties," Ornstein said. He said he expects to make a decision "sooner rather than later."
See Story
USA320Pilot comments: US Airways' senior management has made it known that they were not satisfied with Mesa's operational performance and that they operated fligths with little or no revenue and then charge US Airways for the flight per the "fee for service" agreement. Moreover, there is reason to believe this is more of a situation where Mesa was strong-armed and forced out by US Airways following the Air Wisconsin deal and Mesa needed a home for its aircraft, which they have found for about 50% of their US Airways Express dedicated RJs.
Apparently with 59 Mesa and 15 Chautauqua 50-seat RJs (for a total of 74 50-seat RJs) leaving US Airways Express, US Airways now has a need for the 70 Air Wisconsin 50-seat CRJ-200s.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
I would not be so quixk to count Ornstein out in regards to US Airways. In typical fashion it would be just like him to secure positions for his 50 seaters at DAL, while also working out a deal to instead fly larger RJ's (70/90 seaters) at U...
No one would loan him money to place further eggs in one basket, but they might
let him place larger RJs at U if his 50 seaters were elsewhere.
His statements have indicated a desire to "diversify" his risk, not eliminate it. He smells opportunity, and IMO he will once again look to make himself and Mesa rich off of US Airways situation.
No one would loan him money to place further eggs in one basket, but they might
let him place larger RJs at U if his 50 seaters were elsewhere.
His statements have indicated a desire to "diversify" his risk, not eliminate it. He smells opportunity, and IMO he will once again look to make himself and Mesa rich off of US Airways situation.
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
- 2,123
- 1
How about:
Ornstein is working Delta to place some 50 seaters, but working UAL to put the other 50 seaters and bigger rjs, once Republic merges it's UAx EMB's into MDA in an entity under the newUgroup and operates them as USex or just as US.
Ornstein is working Delta to place some 50 seaters, but working UAL to put the other 50 seaters and bigger rjs, once Republic merges it's UAx EMB's into MDA in an entity under the newUgroup and operates them as USex or just as US.
USA320Pilot said:
Boy, you must really like Dawn Gilbertson of the Arizona Republic, since you keep quoting her as if she's an expert. The above quotation is the author's... Not Orenstein's.
While it is possible and even probable that Mesa's current US Airways Express aircraft are shifted over to DAL, it seems equally possible that Mesa simply acquire more CRJ's on the used market and have 4 partners instead of 3 (or 3 total if US-HP merge).
Again, quoting Gilbertson proves nothing. In fact, Gilbertson and/or the Arizona Republic were not on your list of authors/analysts/publications which you would "believe".
Rico said:
I agree Rico... Mesa has a history of doing things like this...
Remember, not to long ago, Mesa had only two partners: US and HP. Then, Mesa had an opportunity to add Frontier to the mix... The Frontier deal lasted about a year, because a better opportunity came along with UAL. With F9, they had placed something like 5-10 aircraft. They have a larger customer from UAL...
Again, I just cannot imagine Mesa walking away from US Airways without much of a fight... Its not Mesa's style.
Hey Wind S here are the latest numbers from Mesa as promised. I am still getting the data from the other U regional carriers.
US Airways Express 12,211 Scheduled Flights
Controllable Completion: 99.52% Total Completion: 98.55% Departure 0: 70.28% Arrival 14: 74.99%
United Express 6,434 Scheduled Flights
Controllable Completion: 99.77% Total Completion: 97.26% Departure 0: 65.52% Arrival 14: 85.53%
America West Express: 9,649 Scheduled Flights
Controllable completion: 99.69% Total Completion: 99.38% Departure 0: 74.32% Arrival 14: 82.17%
US Airways Express 12,211 Scheduled Flights
Controllable Completion: 99.52% Total Completion: 98.55% Departure 0: 70.28% Arrival 14: 74.99%
United Express 6,434 Scheduled Flights
Controllable Completion: 99.77% Total Completion: 97.26% Departure 0: 65.52% Arrival 14: 85.53%
America West Express: 9,649 Scheduled Flights
Controllable completion: 99.69% Total Completion: 99.38% Departure 0: 74.32% Arrival 14: 82.17%
OP
USA320Pilot
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- May 18, 2003
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Mesa Inks Deal With Delta Finding Home For 30 CRJs
PHOENIX (Aviation Daily) - Mesa Air yesterday made good on its promise to diversify its partnerships by inking its first deal with Delta to fly Connection services in the Northeast, but the deal has prompted questions about Delta ’s regional strategy.
The DAILY first reported on Wednesday that the two airlines were close to a deal that would have Mesa fly in place of the 30 32-seat Fairchild 328JETS previously flown by Atlantic Coast Airlines (DAILY,May 4). Under the partnership agreement inked yesterday Mesa ’s Freedom Airlines subsidiary will fly up to 30 50-seat CRJ-200s on routes “throughout Delta ’s network †for 12 years. The first Mesa plane will fly under Delta colors as early as October.
Mesa’s stock jumped as much as 15% on the news of the new agreement to roughly $6.10 per share. Mesa may not be done with its deal making as sources said CEO Jonathan Ornstein is in negotiations with other carriers for additional agreements. Another announcement could come soon. Ornstein wasn’t available for comment yesterday.
After US Airways inked a deal with Air Wisconsin that gave the regional airline the option to transfer its CRJs from United to US Airways, Mesa realized it needed to find a home for its planes.Currently,23 of Mesa ’s CRJs fly in the US Airways network; these will likely be transferred to Delta, but it ’s not clear if Mesa will pull the seven remaining CRJs from America West or United. Ornstein also is trying to determine what he could do with the 36 Embraer regional jets flying at US Airways.
Mesa’s Freedom Airlines will become the seventh regional airline flying in the Delta Connection network,including Delta ’s wholly owned subsidiaries Atlantic Southeast and Comair. While the details of the agreement are not public, sources said Mesa offered to fly for Delta at relatively low rates partly because Mesa has some of the lowest costs among its peers. “This agreement offers long-term cost savings to Delta and makes it economically attractive to upgrade flying,†said Delta Connection President J.T. Fisher.
Fisher was not available to clarify questions about Delta’s plans. It ’s not clear what is going to happen to the 30 328JETs in Delta colors that parked in Myrtle Beach, S.C., but the planes’ future may be part of the agreement with Mesa. Other observers question why Delta wants more 50-seat jets in its network at a time when its peers want larger regional jets. Delta already has 350 CRJs flying across its North American network.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
PHOENIX (Aviation Daily) - Mesa Air yesterday made good on its promise to diversify its partnerships by inking its first deal with Delta to fly Connection services in the Northeast, but the deal has prompted questions about Delta ’s regional strategy.
The DAILY first reported on Wednesday that the two airlines were close to a deal that would have Mesa fly in place of the 30 32-seat Fairchild 328JETS previously flown by Atlantic Coast Airlines (DAILY,May 4). Under the partnership agreement inked yesterday Mesa ’s Freedom Airlines subsidiary will fly up to 30 50-seat CRJ-200s on routes “throughout Delta ’s network †for 12 years. The first Mesa plane will fly under Delta colors as early as October.
Mesa’s stock jumped as much as 15% on the news of the new agreement to roughly $6.10 per share. Mesa may not be done with its deal making as sources said CEO Jonathan Ornstein is in negotiations with other carriers for additional agreements. Another announcement could come soon. Ornstein wasn’t available for comment yesterday.
After US Airways inked a deal with Air Wisconsin that gave the regional airline the option to transfer its CRJs from United to US Airways, Mesa realized it needed to find a home for its planes.Currently,23 of Mesa ’s CRJs fly in the US Airways network; these will likely be transferred to Delta, but it ’s not clear if Mesa will pull the seven remaining CRJs from America West or United. Ornstein also is trying to determine what he could do with the 36 Embraer regional jets flying at US Airways.
Mesa’s Freedom Airlines will become the seventh regional airline flying in the Delta Connection network,including Delta ’s wholly owned subsidiaries Atlantic Southeast and Comair. While the details of the agreement are not public, sources said Mesa offered to fly for Delta at relatively low rates partly because Mesa has some of the lowest costs among its peers. “This agreement offers long-term cost savings to Delta and makes it economically attractive to upgrade flying,†said Delta Connection President J.T. Fisher.
Fisher was not available to clarify questions about Delta’s plans. It ’s not clear what is going to happen to the 30 328JETs in Delta colors that parked in Myrtle Beach, S.C., but the planes’ future may be part of the agreement with Mesa. Other observers question why Delta wants more 50-seat jets in its network at a time when its peers want larger regional jets. Delta already has 350 CRJs flying across its North American network.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Then they have poor powers of observation.
Look to DAl and note that Comair and ASA enjoy some of the few remainingdecent contracts in the regionals. Add Mesa to the equation and now you have what I call "internal competition", in which the threat of Mesa taking over your flying if you do not lower your costs becomes real, not just a possibility
