Mesa Operation

[diogenes]

We have a Mesa and a Chautaugua RJ scheduled to depart within 30 minutes of one another. We have one set of steps, owned by Mesa. Frequently, what with ATC's, weather, crew rest due to late inbound arrival, these flights overlap. This causes delays. Today, we had the steps up to the first departure. Just prior to boarding, Chautaugua advised of a 30 minute ATC. We hustled the steps to Mesa. Just prior to boarding, Chautaugua advises the ATC has been cancelled, and we have to go NOW. Hustle the steps BACK to Chautaugua, board, hustle BACK to Mesa, etc., etc......you get the picture. VERY professional performance for the onlooking, yet bemused, customers.

The boss has advised the powers-that-be. The response? "Make it work, or we'll change the flight schedule. Those steps are expensive." This was interpreted to mean the flight might be cancelled off the next schedule.

Let me offer some less radical thoughts.

1. What are the ongoing costs of an RJ to be sitting there with the APU running, awaiting steps and passengers, compared to the fixed cost of acquiring the steps?

2. What is this costing us in customer satisfaction and goodwill?

3. From the time the paperwork is handed to the crew, it takes 5 to 8 minutes for the paperwork to come back. Meanwhile, the steps, per Express's safety procedures, remain planeside (can't have someone walk out into empty space!). The crews should have the entire W&B form, except pax and cx weights, completed prior to boarding. Post-boarding, the pax and cx values are known, and form completion would be cut to a couple of minutes. Those minutes count when we're doing the step shuffle.

Just a thought.

 

[Furloughedagain]

3. From the time the paperwork is handed to the crew, it takes 5 to 8 minutes for the paperwork to come back. Meanwhile, the steps, per Express's safety procedures, remain planeside (can't have someone walk out into empty space!). The crews should have the entire W&B form, except pax and cx weights, completed prior to boarding. Post-boarding, the pax and cx values are known, and form completion would be cut to a couple of minutes. Those minutes count when we're doing the step shuffle.

I fly the RJ for another carrier and use the paper method as well. There is a bit more to it than that (unfortunately).

After we get the final passenger and cx numbers and enter them onto the page we add them and check to see that our final number is equal to the number that has been calculated on the FMS. Once we have an agreement the Captain sets the takeoff speeds into the computer while the F/O calculates the index. We calculate the index to determine the takeoff trim setting.

If, for whatever reason, the aircraft is borderline forward CG (which happens quite frequently) there is another calculation done to determine what the index would be at the point at which the aircraft has burned fuel to its most forward CG point. We have to make sure that at that point in time we are still within limits.

Then the Feds want us to plot three points on the CG chart. Takeoff gross weight/index, Zero fuel weight/index, and (if it was used) the weight and index for the extra point just discussed.

If the station then adds one more person (trickle-boarding is fun... not) or one more bag then we have a whole new set of calculations and plot points to add an adjusted takeoff gross weight. More than 2 changes? Time for a whole new form.

Ok, so we finally get the weight all settled on. Now we have to compare those numbers to the performance limit numbers (we also calculate Performance Limit, Structural Limit, Landing Weight Limit, and Zero Fuel Weight Limit) to ensure that we will not exceed them. If they haven't then we take our ACTUAL weight and put it back into the chart to determine a reduced thrust number and make sure that it is equal to the number that the FMS spits out.

When all of that is done THEN we can pass the paper work out to you and get the show on the road.

It is definately different than life at US Airways. I feel very, very spoiled to have enjoyed "waiting for the numbers" while CLP did all the hard work for me.

Now, all of that being said, I have every block possible filled out on that form prior to boarding. Unfortunately good, safe work takes a few minutes and until we get a firm final passenger and cx count I cant finish the paperwork. The sooner the station finishes THEIR job, the sooner I can BEGIN mine.

Not defending Mesa... defending F/Os everywhere. (armed with my 99 cent calculator)

 

[diogenes]

furloughedagain,

Sir, or ma'am,

My apologies. I harken back to the days when agents, armed with a calculator and manuals, did paper w&b for the crews. Many times, I was responsible for the 'numbers' for 6-8 flights with the same departure times. Under such conditions, pre-planning was a must-do.

Many agents maintain their quals, as from time to time, we must still produce a paper w&b. We are expected to have the forms ready for the crew when the jetway pulls off.

That experience was the basis for my post. I must say, your procedures are, shall we say, intricate. Overly so, in my view.

Having said that, I understand crews had zero input in this area - you work for U, right? 😉

Thank you for the info. I can't tell you the times I've stood in the rain in front of an RJ and doing a slow burn, wondering, what the %$@** is the holdup?

Now I know. Hey dave, who says you can't learn something positive on these boards? 😀

 

[Art at ISP]

Forgive my ignorance, but if I am not mistaken, don't the Canadair CRJ's have steps built into the door which opens downward? If so why would you need stairs?

If both aircraft in Dio's example are jungle jets, however, I completely understand.

I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question.

My best to you all,

 

[robbedagain]

ART: The RJs they're talking about are the ERJ-145s that good ol mesa uses and are built with no steps on the door. I know this because we have a mesa clt flight once a day daily and we're using the airstairs from CO since Sept 15th. I dont know if there are any other RJs with no stairs onthe doors.

 

[the turtle]

ART: The RJs they're talking about are the ERJ-145s that good ol mesa uses and are built with no steps on the door. I know this because we have a mesa clt flight once a day daily and we're using the airstairs from CO since Sept 15th. I dont know if there are any other RJs with no stairs onthe doors.

mesa's erj's come without stairs because they're supposed to be parked w/ a jetway, like DCA, HSV, and some others...the question should be, How come ALL MESA ERJ's aren't parked at jetways?

BTW, four more ERJ's are being added to Mesa's fleet in Dec, plus three more CRJ's starting next year. Expect an annoucement regarding 70 seat CRJ's soon.

 

[diogenes]

Art,

You are correct - the CRJ's have steps.

The ERJ's are hit or miss. Some do, some don't.

Situation: Normal.

 

[diogenes]

mesa's erj's come without stairs because they're supposed to be parked w/ a jetway, like DCA, HSV, and some others...the question should be, How come ALL MESA ERJ's aren't parked at jetways?

Because the jetways we have are occupied by mainline jets. And to hazard a guess, I'm not sure our jetways will mate up to RJ's. ASA had a hell of a time getting the jetway to mate their CRJ's, and some modifications had to be done to make it happen. I am unaware of any such mods on our side.

 

[RedOne]

Maybe we can work out a deal. Understand my station has towbar for RJ's but we have been told we can't use it. Pushback unit used on real airplanes is not to be use on RJ's. Tugs that we have are not authorized for RJ pushback. Towbar just laying in the way. Anybody want to trade a set of RJ steps for towbar?
.
Oh, got another good one. Chautauqua provided coffee maker to put coffee on their flights. We were told that beyond a dout, that it was for use on their flights only. Told not to make coffee for Mesa or Piedmont....yet they don't have stairs to use on their aircraft. They use Mesa's stairs!
.
RJ's. The saviour of US ? Yeah. Right.

 

[Light Years]

So Chautauqua is hoping passengers will book Chautauqua flights instead of Mesa or Piedmont ones because they have, wow, coffee? The level of inconsistency in the US Airways Express "product" is amazing.

 

[WSurf]

The ERJ's can come with Air Stair Doors! However JO, just like his cheap run airline and crews decided to save a few bucks and not put them on his airplane! He also wanted only one FMS, but they couldn't allow that because thats how the A/C is Cert.
Turtle you need to remember that its a Regional Jet, and should have Airstair doors! Its a pain in the arse when that airplane comes in and you have to find and push the stairs up to it.

MESA
Mx Every single A/C

 

[Light Years]

When the ERJs were first delivered they had the in-door stair. They later changed over to the plug door with no stairs, American Eagle I think retrofitted the old doors as well so they would all be the same. I'm not sure if Embraer offers a choice, or if they all come without stairs now?

I believe the EMB170 family has airstairs that fold out or can be left it, like a Saab or an ATP.

 

[the turtle]

The ERJ's can come with Air Stair Doors! However JO, just like his cheap run airline and crews decided to save a few bucks and not put them on his airplane! He also wanted only one FMS, but they couldn't allow that because thats how the A/C is Cert.
Turtle you need to remember that its a Regional Jet, and should have Airstair doors! Its a pain in the arse when that airplane comes in and you have to find and push the stairs up to it.

MESA
Mx Every single A/C

Funny, I don't remember JO asking any of the crews whether we wanted an airstair door or not!!! 😉 Mesa's rationale is weight savings and maitenance (or so I was told in groundschool)

All Mesa ERJ's have only one FMS, last time I checked (about three hours ago).

Believe me, I know it's an RJ...I now walk with a pronounced slouch!!