Well, why does it really matter? Didn't know that this was a closed club.[BR]----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[BR][BR] Healthy debate I guess, which is IMO useless in this case.
Memo to the Employees
- Thread starter Severed-N-Happy
- Start date
[P][SPAN class=BodyFont]Maybe somebody could actually respond to the post, ya know?[BR][BR]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[BR][BR] The stage is yours......[/P][/SPAN]
[P][SPAN class=BodyFont]Maybe somebody could actually respond to the post, ya know?[BR][BR]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[BR][BR] The stage is yours......[/P][/SPAN]
Cavalier said: --- With that approach what do you really expect? I have another trade other than being an aircraft mechanic, so I do have other options. People will go on with or without U being alive, so holding a gun to ones head only creates rage not solutions. Debates are not going to change a thing.
Uinvestor says --- As I told the moderator, maybe my wording and tone was not proper for the boards. I apologize for my previous postings. I appreciate your rational reply to my question. Glad to see that you have another trade outside of the airline industry. You mentioned mechanics are needed nationwide. I have a few questions for you.
1.Are your fellow co-workers willing to uproot their families to move across country? If your company is liquidated, there won’t be any severance, so that is another major factor that a family must consider. It does cost several thousands to move a family. A job search can take weeks or months, without a severance package, have your co-workers thought about how they will provide for their families at the same salary level? I read on this board that many employees couldn’t afford to take the concessions that were being offered, but these same people are willing to risk losing their jobs and severance. That doesn’t make any sense.
2.How many of your co-workers in Tampa transferred AND moved their families to other cities?
I would expect the numbers are low, since families usually have two incomes and their spouse just can’t move without time to plan. Many people don’t desire to uproot their children out of their stable school environment.
3. With your aviation license as a mechanic, how does that translate with you being able to use those skills in another mechanical trade/occupation outside the airline industry? I would assume that you would need to have previous experience working on a particular device or training before one would be qualified to gain employment. If I am in error, please correct me.
4. Do you think that your IAM group will pass the latest rounds of concessions? One can look at the UAL situation with the mechanics stating that the company hasn’t provided enough proof that the company is losing 3.2 billion per year. How much more proof do you need before agreeing to concessions?
I agree with you 100%, there is life after usair whether you have a Plan B or not. BUT, if you can control your destiny with this company, I would choose what is best for your family. By liquidating the company and losing your severance wouldn’t be good for anyone. If you have a Plan B, it shouldn’t matter if you lose your job today or tomorrow based upon your analysis. Why not enter your new job with the peace of mind that you will have some benefits for a few months while pursue a job campaign?
I disagree that debates won’t change anything. Why do we have debates in politics? Why do companies have meetings with their employees to discuss current issues and problems? Why are there town hall or community meetings? While everyone has the free agency to vote yes or no, everyone should be fully aware of the pros and cons of their choice. Why do you discuss problems/issues with your spouse or family members?
To the no voters, why are you voting no? I haven’t read many valid reasons on this board yet.
Pitguy said: --- Valid arguments made. As a mechanic with a sound plan "B" I intend to vote no. But never less you have made some sound points and some employees should vote yes.
Uinvestor says --- Thank you Pitguy. Since you are anonymous on this board, with a solid plan B, why are you voting no and possibly risking any potential loss of benefits if your company liquidates? From reading this message board, it appears that usair management is awful and the employees hate working for the company. With so many other options, why is everyone still working for the company? If you could care less about any severance or benefits, why not leave now?
It is very easy to state that you are voting no and that you don’t care, but there is not one person in this world that doesn’t care about losing their employment. Don’t ruin the company for the few people who still like their jobs and depend upon the income and benefits.
Severed-N-Happy said: --- 25 days of vacation and 8 randomly bid holidays. A new CS agt with less than 6 years only accrues 10 days vac and 8 holidays, paid at 75 pct equals 14 days off total for the year. Big whoop, right? So at that rate there indeed are other jobs with similar pay and vac benefits without enduring. Therefore it no longer makes sense to consider working for U a career
Uinvestor says: --- Unless one works with a company that offers an excellent package, most entry level companies offer one maybe two weeks of vacation per year. The average customer service industry (without a degree) will offer one week. I remember a few agents posting that they refuse to give up any vacation days? It is common knowledge in the airline industry that VTO is very popular. If the 75% pay for vacation is such a horrible issue, then stop taking the VTO that if offered. 33 vacation/holidays for a senior agent or 18 days for a junior agent is pretty good, whether it is at 75% pay. Just work some OT to make up the difference. I assume by your handle that you are a recent furlough employee. I know many people who work in the airline industry for the flight benefits ONLY. Look at the part-time employees or the reservation employees who are always taking hours of VTO. There will always be more applications than jobs in this industry. Why does Southwest Airlines receive 100,000 + resumes each year, but only hire 3,000-5000 employees per year? Lets see…many of these employees don’t mind working at $9 bucks an hour and I am sure many don’t know what the top out salary is either.
Severed-N-Happy: Since you have so much knowledge, Please list a few entry-level customer service jobs that pay $21-22 hour to first year employees?
People have asked why I am posting on this board? Does it really matter? If you must know, my secretary’s daughter works for your airline. She began as a gate agent and then was furloughed and now works in reservations. This was very traumatic for her and especially for her concern mother. So, I have a vested interest in seeing that my only secretary is happy by having her one and only daughter who is a divorce mother with two children happy. As I have been accused in the past by being in management, this is how I know much about your company and I was also in the industry myself many years ago. I was an investor with your airline in the 90’s, but luckily I sold most of my shares when your stock reached $60. I ended up making more than I lost, but nobody likes losing money. I believe in your CEO and with the partnership with UAL, I see a bright future with your airline.
Vivi said: --- I am still voting no, Sorry Jack
Uinvestor says: --- Whether you vote yes or no doesn’t affect my personal or business life. I am license to practice law in the State of NY and FL. I have scaled down my caseload to where I work 5-6 hours per day and now spend several months in PBI. So, I do have some spare time now to post online. I enjoy this industry and appreciate reading some of the members posts: Chip, Art * ISP, US2, Tadjr, PineyBob, Itrade, Ual777flyer, just to name a few.
Since it appears that the employees have turned against Dave Siegel, who do you want to be your CEO? If you were in his shoes, you wouldn’t ask to concessions to save the company? I would like to see 3 qualified people who the employees feel could run your company without asking for concessions. Give the man a chance to prove himself. This hasn’t been the best scenario to be a CEO. How many CEO do you know that will spend time answer employee’s emails? My secretary’s daughter has written your CEO 5 emails and he has always replied. This is UNHEARD of in today’s CEO environment. Especially when your company is in Chapter 11. The CEO doesn’t make every decision within the company. He will state that he needs to lower cost by X amount and then the VP will develop a plan to reduce costs. I think that you will have a hard time finding an equal replacement for Dave Siegel.
If your middle managers are awful, why not write Dave? I am sure if he received a few hundred letters regarding a bad manager that some action will be taken. The employees have the power to make a change within this company. But many prefer to use this message board to complain and yell a management versus using this as a construct format to save your airline.
Uinvestor says --- As I told the moderator, maybe my wording and tone was not proper for the boards. I apologize for my previous postings. I appreciate your rational reply to my question. Glad to see that you have another trade outside of the airline industry. You mentioned mechanics are needed nationwide. I have a few questions for you.
1.Are your fellow co-workers willing to uproot their families to move across country? If your company is liquidated, there won’t be any severance, so that is another major factor that a family must consider. It does cost several thousands to move a family. A job search can take weeks or months, without a severance package, have your co-workers thought about how they will provide for their families at the same salary level? I read on this board that many employees couldn’t afford to take the concessions that were being offered, but these same people are willing to risk losing their jobs and severance. That doesn’t make any sense.
2.How many of your co-workers in Tampa transferred AND moved their families to other cities?
I would expect the numbers are low, since families usually have two incomes and their spouse just can’t move without time to plan. Many people don’t desire to uproot their children out of their stable school environment.
3. With your aviation license as a mechanic, how does that translate with you being able to use those skills in another mechanical trade/occupation outside the airline industry? I would assume that you would need to have previous experience working on a particular device or training before one would be qualified to gain employment. If I am in error, please correct me.
4. Do you think that your IAM group will pass the latest rounds of concessions? One can look at the UAL situation with the mechanics stating that the company hasn’t provided enough proof that the company is losing 3.2 billion per year. How much more proof do you need before agreeing to concessions?
I agree with you 100%, there is life after usair whether you have a Plan B or not. BUT, if you can control your destiny with this company, I would choose what is best for your family. By liquidating the company and losing your severance wouldn’t be good for anyone. If you have a Plan B, it shouldn’t matter if you lose your job today or tomorrow based upon your analysis. Why not enter your new job with the peace of mind that you will have some benefits for a few months while pursue a job campaign?
I disagree that debates won’t change anything. Why do we have debates in politics? Why do companies have meetings with their employees to discuss current issues and problems? Why are there town hall or community meetings? While everyone has the free agency to vote yes or no, everyone should be fully aware of the pros and cons of their choice. Why do you discuss problems/issues with your spouse or family members?
To the no voters, why are you voting no? I haven’t read many valid reasons on this board yet.
Pitguy said: --- Valid arguments made. As a mechanic with a sound plan "B" I intend to vote no. But never less you have made some sound points and some employees should vote yes.
Uinvestor says --- Thank you Pitguy. Since you are anonymous on this board, with a solid plan B, why are you voting no and possibly risking any potential loss of benefits if your company liquidates? From reading this message board, it appears that usair management is awful and the employees hate working for the company. With so many other options, why is everyone still working for the company? If you could care less about any severance or benefits, why not leave now?
It is very easy to state that you are voting no and that you don’t care, but there is not one person in this world that doesn’t care about losing their employment. Don’t ruin the company for the few people who still like their jobs and depend upon the income and benefits.
Severed-N-Happy said: --- 25 days of vacation and 8 randomly bid holidays. A new CS agt with less than 6 years only accrues 10 days vac and 8 holidays, paid at 75 pct equals 14 days off total for the year. Big whoop, right? So at that rate there indeed are other jobs with similar pay and vac benefits without enduring. Therefore it no longer makes sense to consider working for U a career
Uinvestor says: --- Unless one works with a company that offers an excellent package, most entry level companies offer one maybe two weeks of vacation per year. The average customer service industry (without a degree) will offer one week. I remember a few agents posting that they refuse to give up any vacation days? It is common knowledge in the airline industry that VTO is very popular. If the 75% pay for vacation is such a horrible issue, then stop taking the VTO that if offered. 33 vacation/holidays for a senior agent or 18 days for a junior agent is pretty good, whether it is at 75% pay. Just work some OT to make up the difference. I assume by your handle that you are a recent furlough employee. I know many people who work in the airline industry for the flight benefits ONLY. Look at the part-time employees or the reservation employees who are always taking hours of VTO. There will always be more applications than jobs in this industry. Why does Southwest Airlines receive 100,000 + resumes each year, but only hire 3,000-5000 employees per year? Lets see…many of these employees don’t mind working at $9 bucks an hour and I am sure many don’t know what the top out salary is either.
Severed-N-Happy: Since you have so much knowledge, Please list a few entry-level customer service jobs that pay $21-22 hour to first year employees?
People have asked why I am posting on this board? Does it really matter? If you must know, my secretary’s daughter works for your airline. She began as a gate agent and then was furloughed and now works in reservations. This was very traumatic for her and especially for her concern mother. So, I have a vested interest in seeing that my only secretary is happy by having her one and only daughter who is a divorce mother with two children happy. As I have been accused in the past by being in management, this is how I know much about your company and I was also in the industry myself many years ago. I was an investor with your airline in the 90’s, but luckily I sold most of my shares when your stock reached $60. I ended up making more than I lost, but nobody likes losing money. I believe in your CEO and with the partnership with UAL, I see a bright future with your airline.
Vivi said: --- I am still voting no, Sorry Jack
Uinvestor says: --- Whether you vote yes or no doesn’t affect my personal or business life. I am license to practice law in the State of NY and FL. I have scaled down my caseload to where I work 5-6 hours per day and now spend several months in PBI. So, I do have some spare time now to post online. I enjoy this industry and appreciate reading some of the members posts: Chip, Art * ISP, US2, Tadjr, PineyBob, Itrade, Ual777flyer, just to name a few.
Since it appears that the employees have turned against Dave Siegel, who do you want to be your CEO? If you were in his shoes, you wouldn’t ask to concessions to save the company? I would like to see 3 qualified people who the employees feel could run your company without asking for concessions. Give the man a chance to prove himself. This hasn’t been the best scenario to be a CEO. How many CEO do you know that will spend time answer employee’s emails? My secretary’s daughter has written your CEO 5 emails and he has always replied. This is UNHEARD of in today’s CEO environment. Especially when your company is in Chapter 11. The CEO doesn’t make every decision within the company. He will state that he needs to lower cost by X amount and then the VP will develop a plan to reduce costs. I think that you will have a hard time finding an equal replacement for Dave Siegel.
If your middle managers are awful, why not write Dave? I am sure if he received a few hundred letters regarding a bad manager that some action will be taken. The employees have the power to make a change within this company. But many prefer to use this message board to complain and yell a management versus using this as a construct format to save your airline.
Cavalier said: --- With that approach what do you really expect? I have another trade other than being an aircraft mechanic, so I do have other options. People will go on with or without U being alive, so holding a gun to ones head only creates rage not solutions. Debates are not going to change a thing.
Uinvestor says --- As I told the moderator, maybe my wording and tone was not proper for the boards. I apologize for my previous postings. I appreciate your rational reply to my question. Glad to see that you have another trade outside of the airline industry. You mentioned mechanics are needed nationwide. I have a few questions for you.
1.Are your fellow co-workers willing to uproot their families to move across country? If your company is liquidated, there won’t be any severance, so that is another major factor that a family must consider. It does cost several thousands to move a family. A job search can take weeks or months, without a severance package, have your co-workers thought about how they will provide for their families at the same salary level? I read on this board that many employees couldn’t afford to take the concessions that were being offered, but these same people are willing to risk losing their jobs and severance. That doesn’t make any sense.
2.How many of your co-workers in Tampa transferred AND moved their families to other cities?
I would expect the numbers are low, since families usually have two incomes and their spouse just can’t move without time to plan. Many people don’t desire to uproot their children out of their stable school environment.
3. With your aviation license as a mechanic, how does that translate with you being able to use those skills in another mechanical trade/occupation outside the airline industry? I would assume that you would need to have previous experience working on a particular device or training before one would be qualified to gain employment. If I am in error, please correct me.
4. Do you think that your IAM group will pass the latest rounds of concessions? One can look at the UAL situation with the mechanics stating that the company hasn’t provided enough proof that the company is losing 3.2 billion per year. How much more proof do you need before agreeing to concessions?
I agree with you 100%, there is life after usair whether you have a Plan B or not. BUT, if you can control your destiny with this company, I would choose what is best for your family. By liquidating the company and losing your severance wouldn’t be good for anyone. If you have a Plan B, it shouldn’t matter if you lose your job today or tomorrow based upon your analysis. Why not enter your new job with the peace of mind that you will have some benefits for a few months while pursue a job campaign?
I disagree that debates won’t change anything. Why do we have debates in politics? Why do companies have meetings with their employees to discuss current issues and problems? Why are there town hall or community meetings? While everyone has the free agency to vote yes or no, everyone should be fully aware of the pros and cons of their choice. Why do you discuss problems/issues with your spouse or family members?
To the no voters, why are you voting no? I haven’t read many valid reasons on this board yet.
Pitguy said: --- Valid arguments made. As a mechanic with a sound plan "B" I intend to vote no. But never less you have made some sound points and some employees should vote yes.
Uinvestor says --- Thank you Pitguy. Since you are anonymous on this board, with a solid plan B, why are you voting no and possibly risking any potential loss of benefits if your company liquidates? From reading this message board, it appears that usair management is awful and the employees hate working for the company. With so many other options, why is everyone still working for the company? If you could care less about any severance or benefits, why not leave now?
It is very easy to state that you are voting no and that you don’t care, but there is not one person in this world that doesn’t care about losing their employment. Don’t ruin the company for the few people who still like their jobs and depend upon the income and benefits.
Severed-N-Happy said: --- 25 days of vacation and 8 randomly bid holidays. A new CS agt with less than 6 years only accrues 10 days vac and 8 holidays, paid at 75 pct equals 14 days off total for the year. Big whoop, right? So at that rate there indeed are other jobs with similar pay and vac benefits without enduring. Therefore it no longer makes sense to consider working for U a career
Uinvestor says: --- Unless one works with a company that offers an excellent package, most entry level companies offer one maybe two weeks of vacation per year. The average customer service industry (without a degree) will offer one week. I remember a few agents posting that they refuse to give up any vacation days? It is common knowledge in the airline industry that VTO is very popular. If the 75% pay for vacation is such a horrible issue, then stop taking the VTO that if offered. 33 vacation/holidays for a senior agent or 18 days for a junior agent is pretty good, whether it is at 75% pay. Just work some OT to make up the difference. I assume by your handle that you are a recent furlough employee. I know many people who work in the airline industry for the flight benefits ONLY. Look at the part-time employees or the reservation employees who are always taking hours of VTO. There will always be more applications than jobs in this industry. Why does Southwest Airlines receive 100,000 + resumes each year, but only hire 3,000-5000 employees per year? Lets see…many of these employees don’t mind working at $9 bucks an hour and I am sure many don’t know what the top out salary is either.
Severed-N-Happy: Since you have so much knowledge, Please list a few entry-level customer service jobs that pay $21-22 hour to first year employees?
People have asked why I am posting on this board? Does it really matter? If you must know, my secretary’s daughter works for your airline. She began as a gate agent and then was furloughed and now works in reservations. This was very traumatic for her and especially for her concern mother. So, I have a vested interest in seeing that my only secretary is happy by having her one and only daughter who is a divorce mother with two children happy. As I have been accused in the past by being in management, this is how I know much about your company and I was also in the industry myself many years ago. I was an investor with your airline in the 90’s, but luckily I sold most of my shares when your stock reached $60. I ended up making more than I lost, but nobody likes losing money. I believe in your CEO and with the partnership with UAL, I see a bright future with your airline.
Vivi said: --- I am still voting no, Sorry Jack
Uinvestor says: --- Whether you vote yes or no doesn’t affect my personal or business life. I am license to practice law in the State of NY and FL. I have scaled down my caseload to where I work 5-6 hours per day and now spend several months in PBI. So, I do have some spare time now to post online. I enjoy this industry and appreciate reading some of the members posts: Chip, Art * ISP, US2, Tadjr, PineyBob, Itrade, Ual777flyer, just to name a few.
Since it appears that the employees have turned against Dave Siegel, who do you want to be your CEO? If you were in his shoes, you wouldn’t ask to concessions to save the company? I would like to see 3 qualified people who the employees feel could run your company without asking for concessions. Give the man a chance to prove himself. This hasn’t been the best scenario to be a CEO. How many CEO do you know that will spend time answer employee’s emails? My secretary’s daughter has written your CEO 5 emails and he has always replied. This is UNHEARD of in today’s CEO environment. Especially when your company is in Chapter 11. The CEO doesn’t make every decision within the company. He will state that he needs to lower cost by X amount and then the VP will develop a plan to reduce costs. I think that you will have a hard time finding an equal replacement for Dave Siegel.
If your middle managers are awful, why not write Dave? I am sure if he received a few hundred letters regarding a bad manager that some action will be taken. The employees have the power to make a change within this company. But many prefer to use this message board to complain and yell a management versus using this as a construct format to save your airline.
Uinvestor says --- As I told the moderator, maybe my wording and tone was not proper for the boards. I apologize for my previous postings. I appreciate your rational reply to my question. Glad to see that you have another trade outside of the airline industry. You mentioned mechanics are needed nationwide. I have a few questions for you.
1.Are your fellow co-workers willing to uproot their families to move across country? If your company is liquidated, there won’t be any severance, so that is another major factor that a family must consider. It does cost several thousands to move a family. A job search can take weeks or months, without a severance package, have your co-workers thought about how they will provide for their families at the same salary level? I read on this board that many employees couldn’t afford to take the concessions that were being offered, but these same people are willing to risk losing their jobs and severance. That doesn’t make any sense.
2.How many of your co-workers in Tampa transferred AND moved their families to other cities?
I would expect the numbers are low, since families usually have two incomes and their spouse just can’t move without time to plan. Many people don’t desire to uproot their children out of their stable school environment.
3. With your aviation license as a mechanic, how does that translate with you being able to use those skills in another mechanical trade/occupation outside the airline industry? I would assume that you would need to have previous experience working on a particular device or training before one would be qualified to gain employment. If I am in error, please correct me.
4. Do you think that your IAM group will pass the latest rounds of concessions? One can look at the UAL situation with the mechanics stating that the company hasn’t provided enough proof that the company is losing 3.2 billion per year. How much more proof do you need before agreeing to concessions?
I agree with you 100%, there is life after usair whether you have a Plan B or not. BUT, if you can control your destiny with this company, I would choose what is best for your family. By liquidating the company and losing your severance wouldn’t be good for anyone. If you have a Plan B, it shouldn’t matter if you lose your job today or tomorrow based upon your analysis. Why not enter your new job with the peace of mind that you will have some benefits for a few months while pursue a job campaign?
I disagree that debates won’t change anything. Why do we have debates in politics? Why do companies have meetings with their employees to discuss current issues and problems? Why are there town hall or community meetings? While everyone has the free agency to vote yes or no, everyone should be fully aware of the pros and cons of their choice. Why do you discuss problems/issues with your spouse or family members?
To the no voters, why are you voting no? I haven’t read many valid reasons on this board yet.
Pitguy said: --- Valid arguments made. As a mechanic with a sound plan "B" I intend to vote no. But never less you have made some sound points and some employees should vote yes.
Uinvestor says --- Thank you Pitguy. Since you are anonymous on this board, with a solid plan B, why are you voting no and possibly risking any potential loss of benefits if your company liquidates? From reading this message board, it appears that usair management is awful and the employees hate working for the company. With so many other options, why is everyone still working for the company? If you could care less about any severance or benefits, why not leave now?
It is very easy to state that you are voting no and that you don’t care, but there is not one person in this world that doesn’t care about losing their employment. Don’t ruin the company for the few people who still like their jobs and depend upon the income and benefits.
Severed-N-Happy said: --- 25 days of vacation and 8 randomly bid holidays. A new CS agt with less than 6 years only accrues 10 days vac and 8 holidays, paid at 75 pct equals 14 days off total for the year. Big whoop, right? So at that rate there indeed are other jobs with similar pay and vac benefits without enduring. Therefore it no longer makes sense to consider working for U a career
Uinvestor says: --- Unless one works with a company that offers an excellent package, most entry level companies offer one maybe two weeks of vacation per year. The average customer service industry (without a degree) will offer one week. I remember a few agents posting that they refuse to give up any vacation days? It is common knowledge in the airline industry that VTO is very popular. If the 75% pay for vacation is such a horrible issue, then stop taking the VTO that if offered. 33 vacation/holidays for a senior agent or 18 days for a junior agent is pretty good, whether it is at 75% pay. Just work some OT to make up the difference. I assume by your handle that you are a recent furlough employee. I know many people who work in the airline industry for the flight benefits ONLY. Look at the part-time employees or the reservation employees who are always taking hours of VTO. There will always be more applications than jobs in this industry. Why does Southwest Airlines receive 100,000 + resumes each year, but only hire 3,000-5000 employees per year? Lets see…many of these employees don’t mind working at $9 bucks an hour and I am sure many don’t know what the top out salary is either.
Severed-N-Happy: Since you have so much knowledge, Please list a few entry-level customer service jobs that pay $21-22 hour to first year employees?
People have asked why I am posting on this board? Does it really matter? If you must know, my secretary’s daughter works for your airline. She began as a gate agent and then was furloughed and now works in reservations. This was very traumatic for her and especially for her concern mother. So, I have a vested interest in seeing that my only secretary is happy by having her one and only daughter who is a divorce mother with two children happy. As I have been accused in the past by being in management, this is how I know much about your company and I was also in the industry myself many years ago. I was an investor with your airline in the 90’s, but luckily I sold most of my shares when your stock reached $60. I ended up making more than I lost, but nobody likes losing money. I believe in your CEO and with the partnership with UAL, I see a bright future with your airline.
Vivi said: --- I am still voting no, Sorry Jack
Uinvestor says: --- Whether you vote yes or no doesn’t affect my personal or business life. I am license to practice law in the State of NY and FL. I have scaled down my caseload to where I work 5-6 hours per day and now spend several months in PBI. So, I do have some spare time now to post online. I enjoy this industry and appreciate reading some of the members posts: Chip, Art * ISP, US2, Tadjr, PineyBob, Itrade, Ual777flyer, just to name a few.
Since it appears that the employees have turned against Dave Siegel, who do you want to be your CEO? If you were in his shoes, you wouldn’t ask to concessions to save the company? I would like to see 3 qualified people who the employees feel could run your company without asking for concessions. Give the man a chance to prove himself. This hasn’t been the best scenario to be a CEO. How many CEO do you know that will spend time answer employee’s emails? My secretary’s daughter has written your CEO 5 emails and he has always replied. This is UNHEARD of in today’s CEO environment. Especially when your company is in Chapter 11. The CEO doesn’t make every decision within the company. He will state that he needs to lower cost by X amount and then the VP will develop a plan to reduce costs. I think that you will have a hard time finding an equal replacement for Dave Siegel.
If your middle managers are awful, why not write Dave? I am sure if he received a few hundred letters regarding a bad manager that some action will be taken. The employees have the power to make a change within this company. But many prefer to use this message board to complain and yell a management versus using this as a construct format to save your airline.
pitguy
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DELLDUDE,
In response to your query I reply with the following. I feel that for me the new company may not be worth staying. The direction of the work environment is not one to which I find conducive for happy employment for someone whom has possible as many as 20 years left to work. If I was an employee that is older such as yourself and only had a few years left before retirement then I possible could see one sticking it out. As far as the other areas of your inquiry I am not sure what information you are seeking or the point you are trying to make. If I recall correctly you have stated that you were a steel mill worker and have no other education except for the government funded A&P training that you received and that after your layoff from the steel mill you proceeded approximately three years unemployed and collected welfare. With the stress of this causing broken relationships and a bankruptcy. I for one could definitely understand the emotionally turmoil this must have caused and truly feel that a relapse into these social issues would be counter productive for a healthy individual. Every person has their limits as to what and when they feel they need to react and I feel it is prudent for me to take the actions I have in preparation for any forthcoming opportunities. I truly wish you the best of luck and hope 2003 is a grand year for you.
P.S.- Maybe this will help answer part of your question. I would not pay a premium to employ an individual whom has no education or marketable skills and is easily replaceable. I would compensate them at a modest rate.
In response to your query I reply with the following. I feel that for me the new company may not be worth staying. The direction of the work environment is not one to which I find conducive for happy employment for someone whom has possible as many as 20 years left to work. If I was an employee that is older such as yourself and only had a few years left before retirement then I possible could see one sticking it out. As far as the other areas of your inquiry I am not sure what information you are seeking or the point you are trying to make. If I recall correctly you have stated that you were a steel mill worker and have no other education except for the government funded A&P training that you received and that after your layoff from the steel mill you proceeded approximately three years unemployed and collected welfare. With the stress of this causing broken relationships and a bankruptcy. I for one could definitely understand the emotionally turmoil this must have caused and truly feel that a relapse into these social issues would be counter productive for a healthy individual. Every person has their limits as to what and when they feel they need to react and I feel it is prudent for me to take the actions I have in preparation for any forthcoming opportunities. I truly wish you the best of luck and hope 2003 is a grand year for you.
P.S.- Maybe this will help answer part of your question. I would not pay a premium to employ an individual whom has no education or marketable skills and is easily replaceable. I would compensate them at a modest rate.
pitguy
Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2002
- Messages
- 1,509
- Reaction score
- 0
DELLDUDE,
In response to your query I reply with the following. I feel that for me the new company may not be worth staying. The direction of the work environment is not one to which I find conducive for happy employment for someone whom has possible as many as 20 years left to work. If I was an employee that is older such as yourself and only had a few years left before retirement then I possible could see one sticking it out. As far as the other areas of your inquiry I am not sure what information you are seeking or the point you are trying to make. If I recall correctly you have stated that you were a steel mill worker and have no other education except for the government funded A&P training that you received and that after your layoff from the steel mill you proceeded approximately three years unemployed and collected welfare. With the stress of this causing broken relationships and a bankruptcy. I for one could definitely understand the emotionally turmoil this must have caused and truly feel that a relapse into these social issues would be counter productive for a healthy individual. Every person has their limits as to what and when they feel they need to react and I feel it is prudent for me to take the actions I have in preparation for any forthcoming opportunities. I truly wish you the best of luck and hope 2003 is a grand year for you.
P.S.- Maybe this will help answer part of your question. I would not pay a premium to employ an individual whom has no education or marketable skills and is easily replaceable. I would compensate them at a modest rate.
In response to your query I reply with the following. I feel that for me the new company may not be worth staying. The direction of the work environment is not one to which I find conducive for happy employment for someone whom has possible as many as 20 years left to work. If I was an employee that is older such as yourself and only had a few years left before retirement then I possible could see one sticking it out. As far as the other areas of your inquiry I am not sure what information you are seeking or the point you are trying to make. If I recall correctly you have stated that you were a steel mill worker and have no other education except for the government funded A&P training that you received and that after your layoff from the steel mill you proceeded approximately three years unemployed and collected welfare. With the stress of this causing broken relationships and a bankruptcy. I for one could definitely understand the emotionally turmoil this must have caused and truly feel that a relapse into these social issues would be counter productive for a healthy individual. Every person has their limits as to what and when they feel they need to react and I feel it is prudent for me to take the actions I have in preparation for any forthcoming opportunities. I truly wish you the best of luck and hope 2003 is a grand year for you.
P.S.- Maybe this will help answer part of your question. I would not pay a premium to employ an individual whom has no education or marketable skills and is easily replaceable. I would compensate them at a modest rate.
7. Now to the airport and reservation agents. To state that one must be paid a high salary to obtain excellent customer service is ludicrous. Every CWA employee started at the bottom, when you were a new hire; did you provide bad customer service because you were paid less than your senior colleagues? As I stated in a previous post, the labor unions in this country need a major overhaul. Look at the aviation employees in Europe, what excellent customer service, even though they are contracted out and paid a reduce salary. Higher salary = Better Customer Service is a false claim. I receive excellent service by many low paying customer service employees. I.e.: Wal-Mart, Target, Even the new TSA screeners provide excellent customer service at their $26K year salary. Our law enforcement is greatly under paid, but they provide an excellent service and are respectful to the public. Look on the Internet and see if you will be paid more with 15 years of customer service experience versus 1 year. I don’t believe that it will make much of a difference.
------------------------------------------------------------
OK, let's look at the marketplace. WN's Top of Scale wage for agents is $25. WN's the only carrier making $$'s, and hasn't laid off any employees. Obviously, I'm not arguing that WN is profitable because it pays agents that wage; I am arguing that $25 wage is NOT a barrier to profitability.
Thoughts? Rational ones, please.
------------------------------------------------------------
OK, let's look at the marketplace. WN's Top of Scale wage for agents is $25. WN's the only carrier making $$'s, and hasn't laid off any employees. Obviously, I'm not arguing that WN is profitable because it pays agents that wage; I am arguing that $25 wage is NOT a barrier to profitability.
Thoughts? Rational ones, please.
7. Now to the airport and reservation agents. To state that one must be paid a high salary to obtain excellent customer service is ludicrous. Every CWA employee started at the bottom, when you were a new hire; did you provide bad customer service because you were paid less than your senior colleagues? As I stated in a previous post, the labor unions in this country need a major overhaul. Look at the aviation employees in Europe, what excellent customer service, even though they are contracted out and paid a reduce salary. Higher salary = Better Customer Service is a false claim. I receive excellent service by many low paying customer service employees. I.e.: Wal-Mart, Target, Even the new TSA screeners provide excellent customer service at their $26K year salary. Our law enforcement is greatly under paid, but they provide an excellent service and are respectful to the public. Look on the Internet and see if you will be paid more with 15 years of customer service experience versus 1 year. I don’t believe that it will make much of a difference.
------------------------------------------------------------
OK, let's look at the marketplace. WN's Top of Scale wage for agents is $25. WN's the only carrier making $$'s, and hasn't laid off any employees. Obviously, I'm not arguing that WN is profitable because it pays agents that wage; I am arguing that $25 wage is NOT a barrier to profitability.
Thoughts? Rational ones, please.
------------------------------------------------------------
OK, let's look at the marketplace. WN's Top of Scale wage for agents is $25. WN's the only carrier making $$'s, and hasn't laid off any employees. Obviously, I'm not arguing that WN is profitable because it pays agents that wage; I am arguing that $25 wage is NOT a barrier to profitability.
Thoughts? Rational ones, please.
Severed-N-Happy
Senior
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2002
- Messages
- 395
- Reaction score
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/2/2003 11:51:11 AM Uinvestor wrote:
Severed-N-Happy: Since you have so much knowledge, Please list a few entry-level customer service jobs that pay $21-22 hour to first year employees?
----------------
[/blockquote]You keep overlooking one major point that has been brought up several times.
20 an hour is just about a thing of the past, or it will be within the next year. Topped out agents will be reduced to 13 an hour or thereabouts, as furloughs and closures increase, and recalls at bottom of the scale and into new much lower MDA scale rise and become the predominant work force.And further restructuring and demands and ultimatums beyond the two already having occured will increase the speed and likelihood of this happening in 2003.
----------------
On 1/2/2003 11:51:11 AM Uinvestor wrote:
Severed-N-Happy: Since you have so much knowledge, Please list a few entry-level customer service jobs that pay $21-22 hour to first year employees?
----------------
[/blockquote]You keep overlooking one major point that has been brought up several times.
20 an hour is just about a thing of the past, or it will be within the next year. Topped out agents will be reduced to 13 an hour or thereabouts, as furloughs and closures increase, and recalls at bottom of the scale and into new much lower MDA scale rise and become the predominant work force.And further restructuring and demands and ultimatums beyond the two already having occured will increase the speed and likelihood of this happening in 2003.
Severed-N-Happy
Senior
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2002
- Messages
- 395
- Reaction score
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/2/2003 11:51:11 AM Uinvestor wrote:
Severed-N-Happy: Since you have so much knowledge, Please list a few entry-level customer service jobs that pay $21-22 hour to first year employees?
----------------
[/blockquote]You keep overlooking one major point that has been brought up several times.
20 an hour is just about a thing of the past, or it will be within the next year. Topped out agents will be reduced to 13 an hour or thereabouts, as furloughs and closures increase, and recalls at bottom of the scale and into new much lower MDA scale rise and become the predominant work force.And further restructuring and demands and ultimatums beyond the two already having occured will increase the speed and likelihood of this happening in 2003.
----------------
On 1/2/2003 11:51:11 AM Uinvestor wrote:
Severed-N-Happy: Since you have so much knowledge, Please list a few entry-level customer service jobs that pay $21-22 hour to first year employees?
----------------
[/blockquote]You keep overlooking one major point that has been brought up several times.
20 an hour is just about a thing of the past, or it will be within the next year. Topped out agents will be reduced to 13 an hour or thereabouts, as furloughs and closures increase, and recalls at bottom of the scale and into new much lower MDA scale rise and become the predominant work force.And further restructuring and demands and ultimatums beyond the two already having occured will increase the speed and likelihood of this happening in 2003.
[SPAN class=BodyFont]Cavalier said: --- With that approach what do you really expect? I have another trade other than being an aircraft mechanic, so I do have other options. People will go on with or without U being alive, so holding a gun to ones head only creates rage not solutions. Debates are not going to change a thing. [BR][BR]Uinvestor says --- As I told the moderator, maybe my wording and tone was not proper for the boards. I apologize for my previous postings. [BR][BR] THANK YOU [BR][BR][BR]1.Are your fellow co-workers willing to uproot their families to move across country? If your company is liquidated, there won’t be any severance, so that is another major factor that a family must consider. It does cost several thousands to move a family. A job search can take weeks or months, without a severance package, have your co-workers thought about how they will provide for their families at the same salary level? I read on this board that many employees couldn’t afford to take the concessions that were being offered, but these same people are willing to risk losing their jobs and severance. That doesn’t make any sense.[BR][BR] I am with you regarding every point here, and I have NO idea what my co-workers are dreaming about![BR][BR][BR]2.How many of your co-workers in Tampa transferred AND moved their families to other cities?[BR][BR] NOT Many, is my understanding[BR][BR][BR]3. With your aviation license as a mechanic, how does that translate with you being able to use those skills in another mechanical trade/occupation outside the airline industry? I would assume that you would need to have previous experience working on a particular device or training before one would be qualified to gain employment. If I am in error, please correct me. [BR][BR] I became an aircraft mechanic later in life. I hold journeymen papers in another trade totally unrelated to this industry. Being an aircraft mechanic pays more was the reason I acquired my A&P license. I can return to my previous trade and live comfortably. While working at U, I built a new home and worked myself completely out of debt. A totally disabled spouse and the knowledge that this industry is shaky and unstable created my drive.[BR][BR][BR]4. Do you think that your IAM group will pass the latest rounds of concessions? One can look at the UAL situation with the mechanics stating that the company hasn’t provided enough proof that the company is losing 3.2 billion per year. How much more proof do you need before agreeing to concessions?[BR][BR] Jack, I addressed this very same fact on another thread about UAL and the IAM! [BR] [BR] Do I think it will pass? At first, yes, but now I honestly don't know.[BR][BR][BR]I agree with you 100%, there is life after usair whether you have a Plan B or not. BUT, if you can control your destiny with this company, I would choose what is best for your family. By liquidating the company and losing your severance wouldn’t be good for anyone. If you have a Plan B, it shouldn’t matter if you lose your job today or tomorrow based upon your analysis. Why not enter your new job with the peace of mind that you will have some benefits for a few months while pursue a job campaign?[BR][BR] Agreed[BR] [BR][BR]I disagree that debates won’t change anything. Why do we have debates in politics? Why do companies have meetings with their employees to discuss current issues and problems? Why are there town hall or community meetings? While everyone has the free agency to vote yes or no, everyone should be fully aware of the pros and cons of their choice. Why do you discuss problems/issues with your spouse or family members? [BR][BR]
[P] You have loudly showed me my error here![BR][BR] But let me explain why I said that.[BR][BR] The people I work with everyday are completely fed up and then some. They don't want to hear anymore doom and gloom, they no longer believe anything they are told, they really don't believe chapter 7 will happen, they feel they were told lies before and it's no different this time. The people I am around, MANY, feel that no matter what they vote it won't matter. Why, because they believe the union will override their no vote anyway. So why are they voting no? Because they feel a no vote shows how they really feel, and the union won't let it happen, or the company will not REALLY go chapter 7. THIS is what I hear. [BR][BR][BR] So Jack, I have done my share. Now lets see how far YOU can go to bring people to reason.[BR][BR] Cavalier[BR][/P][FONT size=2][/FONT][BR][/SPAN]
[P] You have loudly showed me my error here![BR][BR] But let me explain why I said that.[BR][BR] The people I work with everyday are completely fed up and then some. They don't want to hear anymore doom and gloom, they no longer believe anything they are told, they really don't believe chapter 7 will happen, they feel they were told lies before and it's no different this time. The people I am around, MANY, feel that no matter what they vote it won't matter. Why, because they believe the union will override their no vote anyway. So why are they voting no? Because they feel a no vote shows how they really feel, and the union won't let it happen, or the company will not REALLY go chapter 7. THIS is what I hear. [BR][BR][BR] So Jack, I have done my share. Now lets see how far YOU can go to bring people to reason.[BR][BR] Cavalier[BR][/P][FONT size=2][/FONT][BR][/SPAN]
[SPAN class=BodyFont]Cavalier said: --- With that approach what do you really expect? I have another trade other than being an aircraft mechanic, so I do have other options. People will go on with or without U being alive, so holding a gun to ones head only creates rage not solutions. Debates are not going to change a thing. [BR][BR]Uinvestor says --- As I told the moderator, maybe my wording and tone was not proper for the boards. I apologize for my previous postings. [BR][BR] THANK YOU [BR][BR][BR]1.Are your fellow co-workers willing to uproot their families to move across country? If your company is liquidated, there won’t be any severance, so that is another major factor that a family must consider. It does cost several thousands to move a family. A job search can take weeks or months, without a severance package, have your co-workers thought about how they will provide for their families at the same salary level? I read on this board that many employees couldn’t afford to take the concessions that were being offered, but these same people are willing to risk losing their jobs and severance. That doesn’t make any sense.[BR][BR] I am with you regarding every point here, and I have NO idea what my co-workers are dreaming about![BR][BR][BR]2.How many of your co-workers in Tampa transferred AND moved their families to other cities?[BR][BR] NOT Many, is my understanding[BR][BR][BR]3. With your aviation license as a mechanic, how does that translate with you being able to use those skills in another mechanical trade/occupation outside the airline industry? I would assume that you would need to have previous experience working on a particular device or training before one would be qualified to gain employment. If I am in error, please correct me. [BR][BR] I became an aircraft mechanic later in life. I hold journeymen papers in another trade totally unrelated to this industry. Being an aircraft mechanic pays more was the reason I acquired my A&P license. I can return to my previous trade and live comfortably. While working at U, I built a new home and worked myself completely out of debt. A totally disabled spouse and the knowledge that this industry is shaky and unstable created my drive.[BR][BR][BR]4. Do you think that your IAM group will pass the latest rounds of concessions? One can look at the UAL situation with the mechanics stating that the company hasn’t provided enough proof that the company is losing 3.2 billion per year. How much more proof do you need before agreeing to concessions?[BR][BR] Jack, I addressed this very same fact on another thread about UAL and the IAM! [BR] [BR] Do I think it will pass? At first, yes, but now I honestly don't know.[BR][BR][BR]I agree with you 100%, there is life after usair whether you have a Plan B or not. BUT, if you can control your destiny with this company, I would choose what is best for your family. By liquidating the company and losing your severance wouldn’t be good for anyone. If you have a Plan B, it shouldn’t matter if you lose your job today or tomorrow based upon your analysis. Why not enter your new job with the peace of mind that you will have some benefits for a few months while pursue a job campaign?[BR][BR] Agreed[BR] [BR][BR]I disagree that debates won’t change anything. Why do we have debates in politics? Why do companies have meetings with their employees to discuss current issues and problems? Why are there town hall or community meetings? While everyone has the free agency to vote yes or no, everyone should be fully aware of the pros and cons of their choice. Why do you discuss problems/issues with your spouse or family members? [BR][BR]
[P] You have loudly showed me my error here![BR][BR] But let me explain why I said that.[BR][BR] The people I work with everyday are completely fed up and then some. They don't want to hear anymore doom and gloom, they no longer believe anything they are told, they really don't believe chapter 7 will happen, they feel they were told lies before and it's no different this time. The people I am around, MANY, feel that no matter what they vote it won't matter. Why, because they believe the union will override their no vote anyway. So why are they voting no? Because they feel a no vote shows how they really feel, and the union won't let it happen, or the company will not REALLY go chapter 7. THIS is what I hear. [BR][BR][BR] So Jack, I have done my share. Now lets see how far YOU can go to bring people to reason.[BR][BR] Cavalier[BR][/P][FONT size=2][/FONT][BR][/SPAN]
[P] You have loudly showed me my error here![BR][BR] But let me explain why I said that.[BR][BR] The people I work with everyday are completely fed up and then some. They don't want to hear anymore doom and gloom, they no longer believe anything they are told, they really don't believe chapter 7 will happen, they feel they were told lies before and it's no different this time. The people I am around, MANY, feel that no matter what they vote it won't matter. Why, because they believe the union will override their no vote anyway. So why are they voting no? Because they feel a no vote shows how they really feel, and the union won't let it happen, or the company will not REALLY go chapter 7. THIS is what I hear. [BR][BR][BR] So Jack, I have done my share. Now lets see how far YOU can go to bring people to reason.[BR][BR] Cavalier[BR][/P][FONT size=2][/FONT][BR][/SPAN]
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/2/2003 11:53:25 AM pitguy wrote:
[P]DELLDUDE,[BR][BR]In response to your query I reply with the following. I feel that for me the new company may not be worth staying. The direction of the work environment is not one to which I find conducive for happy employment for someone whom has possible as many as 20 years left to work. If I was an employee that is older such as yourself and only had a few years left before retirement then I possible could see one sticking it out. As far as the other areas of your inquiry I am not sure what information you are seeking or the point you are trying to make. If I recall correctly you have stated that you were a steel mill worker and have no other education except for the government funded A&P training that you received and that after your layoff from the steel mill you proceeded approximately three years unemployed and collected welfare. With the stress of this causing broken relationships and a bankruptcy. I for one could definitely understand the emotionally turmoil this must have caused and truly feel that a relapse into these social issues would be counter productive for a healthy individual. Every person has their limits as to what and when they feel they need to react and I feel it is prudent for me to take the actions I have in preparation for any forthcoming opportunities. I truly wish you the best of luck and hope 2003 is a grand year for you.[BR][BR]P.S.- Maybe this will help answer part of your question. I would not pay a premium to employ an individual whom has no education or marketable skills and is easily replaceable. I would compensate them at a modest rate.[BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]brother,i feel your pain...i too have an easy 20 years of which to enjoy gainful employment.if i can find someone of your youthful age to push my wheelchair around the workplace,i will feel free and unencumbered to do my best even in the advanced state of life that i am burdened with.i am assured of work into my 70's with recent legislation and help from the americans with disabilities act that should assure me of a place to spend my waning days working on aircraft.during the hardships that you have so kindly mentioned,i must,if i may tell you that someday my youthful friend,you may have to endure similar if not more tragic venues(which i pray not).i fear not of upcoming events as i was preversed in the dilema many years ago..my concern is for people like you who will be forced to deal with events and learn as you go.i dealt with my situation in the past and am very well prepared to deal with my future .call it what you like,but my past dilema's were great learning experiences both personally and spiritually.may you also be blessed .[BR] you seem to be quite sad in your posts...i feel a great emptiness on your side...if you are so torn up,why do you persist to endure the pain of employment? if your grand plan is so worthwhile,wwhy don't you end the pain?[BR] my friend,what you call a marketable skill and what you have to market are some of lifes cruel learning experiences.[BR][BR]'let he who has not sinned,cast the first stone"
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/2/2003 11:53:25 AM pitguy wrote:
[P]DELLDUDE,[BR][BR]In response to your query I reply with the following. I feel that for me the new company may not be worth staying. The direction of the work environment is not one to which I find conducive for happy employment for someone whom has possible as many as 20 years left to work. If I was an employee that is older such as yourself and only had a few years left before retirement then I possible could see one sticking it out. As far as the other areas of your inquiry I am not sure what information you are seeking or the point you are trying to make. If I recall correctly you have stated that you were a steel mill worker and have no other education except for the government funded A&P training that you received and that after your layoff from the steel mill you proceeded approximately three years unemployed and collected welfare. With the stress of this causing broken relationships and a bankruptcy. I for one could definitely understand the emotionally turmoil this must have caused and truly feel that a relapse into these social issues would be counter productive for a healthy individual. Every person has their limits as to what and when they feel they need to react and I feel it is prudent for me to take the actions I have in preparation for any forthcoming opportunities. I truly wish you the best of luck and hope 2003 is a grand year for you.[BR][BR]P.S.- Maybe this will help answer part of your question. I would not pay a premium to employ an individual whom has no education or marketable skills and is easily replaceable. I would compensate them at a modest rate.[BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]brother,i feel your pain...i too have an easy 20 years of which to enjoy gainful employment.if i can find someone of your youthful age to push my wheelchair around the workplace,i will feel free and unencumbered to do my best even in the advanced state of life that i am burdened with.i am assured of work into my 70's with recent legislation and help from the americans with disabilities act that should assure me of a place to spend my waning days working on aircraft.during the hardships that you have so kindly mentioned,i must,if i may tell you that someday my youthful friend,you may have to endure similar if not more tragic venues(which i pray not).i fear not of upcoming events as i was preversed in the dilema many years ago..my concern is for people like you who will be forced to deal with events and learn as you go.i dealt with my situation in the past and am very well prepared to deal with my future .call it what you like,but my past dilema's were great learning experiences both personally and spiritually.may you also be blessed .[BR] you seem to be quite sad in your posts...i feel a great emptiness on your side...if you are so torn up,why do you persist to endure the pain of employment? if your grand plan is so worthwhile,wwhy don't you end the pain?[BR] my friend,what you call a marketable skill and what you have to market are some of lifes cruel learning experiences.[BR][BR]'let he who has not sinned,cast the first stone"
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/2/2003 11:53:25 AM pitguy wrote:
[P]DELLDUDE,[BR][BR]In response to your query I reply with the following. I feel that for me the new company may not be worth staying. The direction of the work environment is not one to which I find conducive for happy employment for someone whom has possible as many as 20 years left to work. If I was an employee that is older such as yourself and only had a few years left before retirement then I possible could see one sticking it out. As far as the other areas of your inquiry I am not sure what information you are seeking or the point you are trying to make. If I recall correctly you have stated that you were a steel mill worker and have no other education except for the government funded A&P training that you received and that after your layoff from the steel mill you proceeded approximately three years unemployed and collected welfare. With the stress of this causing broken relationships and a bankruptcy. I for one could definitely understand the emotionally turmoil this must have caused and truly feel that a relapse into these social issues would be counter productive for a healthy individual. Every person has their limits as to what and when they feel they need to react and I feel it is prudent for me to take the actions I have in preparation for any forthcoming opportunities. I truly wish you the best of luck and hope 2003 is a grand year for you.[BR][BR]P.S.- Maybe this will help answer part of your question. I would not pay a premium to employ an individual whom has no education or marketable skills and is easily replaceable. I would compensate them at a modest rate.[BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]brother,i feel your pain...i too have an easy 20 years of which to enjoy gainful employment.if i can find someone of your youthful age to push my wheelchair around the workplace,i will feel free and unencumbered to do my best even in the advanced state of life that i am burdened with.i am assured of work into my 70's with recent legislation and help from the americans with disabilities act that should assure me of a place to spend my waning days working on aircraft.during the hardships that you have so kindly mentioned,i must,if i may tell you that someday my youthful friend,you may have to endure similar if not more tragic venues(which i pray not).i fear not of upcoming events as i was preversed in the dilema many years ago..my concern is for people like you who will be forced to deal with events and learn as you go.i dealt with my situation in the past and am very well prepared to deal with my future .call it what you like,but my past dilema's were great learning experiences both personally and spiritually.may you also be blessed .[BR] you seem to be quite sad in your posts...i feel a great emptiness on your side...if you are so torn up,why do you persist to endure the pain of employment? if your grand plan is so worthwhile,wwhy don't you end the pain?[BR] my friend,what you call a marketable skill and what you have to market are some of lifes cruel learning experiences.[BR][BR]'let he who has not sinned,cast the first stone"
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/2/2003 11:53:25 AM pitguy wrote:
[P]DELLDUDE,[BR][BR]In response to your query I reply with the following. I feel that for me the new company may not be worth staying. The direction of the work environment is not one to which I find conducive for happy employment for someone whom has possible as many as 20 years left to work. If I was an employee that is older such as yourself and only had a few years left before retirement then I possible could see one sticking it out. As far as the other areas of your inquiry I am not sure what information you are seeking or the point you are trying to make. If I recall correctly you have stated that you were a steel mill worker and have no other education except for the government funded A&P training that you received and that after your layoff from the steel mill you proceeded approximately three years unemployed and collected welfare. With the stress of this causing broken relationships and a bankruptcy. I for one could definitely understand the emotionally turmoil this must have caused and truly feel that a relapse into these social issues would be counter productive for a healthy individual. Every person has their limits as to what and when they feel they need to react and I feel it is prudent for me to take the actions I have in preparation for any forthcoming opportunities. I truly wish you the best of luck and hope 2003 is a grand year for you.[BR][BR]P.S.- Maybe this will help answer part of your question. I would not pay a premium to employ an individual whom has no education or marketable skills and is easily replaceable. I would compensate them at a modest rate.[BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]brother,i feel your pain...i too have an easy 20 years of which to enjoy gainful employment.if i can find someone of your youthful age to push my wheelchair around the workplace,i will feel free and unencumbered to do my best even in the advanced state of life that i am burdened with.i am assured of work into my 70's with recent legislation and help from the americans with disabilities act that should assure me of a place to spend my waning days working on aircraft.during the hardships that you have so kindly mentioned,i must,if i may tell you that someday my youthful friend,you may have to endure similar if not more tragic venues(which i pray not).i fear not of upcoming events as i was preversed in the dilema many years ago..my concern is for people like you who will be forced to deal with events and learn as you go.i dealt with my situation in the past and am very well prepared to deal with my future .call it what you like,but my past dilema's were great learning experiences both personally and spiritually.may you also be blessed .[BR] you seem to be quite sad in your posts...i feel a great emptiness on your side...if you are so torn up,why do you persist to endure the pain of employment? if your grand plan is so worthwhile,wwhy don't you end the pain?[BR] my friend,what you call a marketable skill and what you have to market are some of lifes cruel learning experiences.[BR][BR]'let he who has not sinned,cast the first stone"
