Mechanics Have Reason To Be Upset

[KCFlyer]

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On 7/10/2003 8:43:02 AM TDR1502C wrote:

Sounds ok with me. Keep working on "humble" in the meantime.

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So maintaining sh(*&(y labor/management relations, maintaining cost cutting efforts, and continuing furloughs sounds like a winning proposition? Or do you think the new iteration of the CAB will say "No you silly airlines, you can''t charge anything less than a thousand dollars for that transcon flight "? IMHO, that''ll never happen. What WILL happen is that the new CAB will look at what full fare transcons go for on an airline that is making money (about $600R/T on Southwest) and that will be the benchmark - for the high end. Are you ready to start talking with managment about getting costs down to a level to support that? And again - how will that type of regulation benefit the airline employees?

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 7/10/2003 901 AM TDR1502C wrote:

Got any references on how the CAB operated, other than your bellybutton?

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You got me there...it's been what...over 20 years since the CAB has been in operation? But if it was revived, do you think that it would go back to doing what it did in the 1960's, or do you think it might just take into account what the country has grown accustomed to these past 20 some odd years? Because I don't think that any administration, Republican or Democrat, would think it was politically wise to reregulate the airline industry and decree that airfares must rise. As I said, there are 3 airlines that appear to be able to make a profit while offering discount advance purchase fares and reasonable last minute fares. Perhaps rather than having the government dictate what a fare should be, the airlines might be wise to make a few little changes - like not selling tickets for $200 less than the "low fare" carrier when the low fare carrier has sold out there allotment of cheaper seats. But again....please educate me - how would reregulation improve things for airline employees? I'm open for an education, but you seem only to able to insult. So educate me. I'm listening.

 

[Bob Owens]

One of the myths of Deregulation is that it brought prices down. Did prices come down ? Yes but during the regulated era prices came down also. As the industry developed more efficient equipement the costs came down and so did prices. While there are deals out there under deregulation some travellers get fleeced. Those who have to travel due to an emergency or death of a loved one get hosed. The savings are not across the board. What deregulation did produce was profits. Despite all the talk of losses the industry showed more profits since being deregulated that when they were regulated. The wide swings between massive profits and losses have helped the airlines to make more and more money. This is due to the fact that airlines are able to delay labor negotiations for years during the boom years and then get concessions during the bust for long terms. Or as in the latest case just threaten BK and break the contract, in the meantime the employees are locked in. Contracts have become one way deals.

 

[RV4]

BUTCH Helped the TWU sell us out, now he is ousted!

Union at overhaul base shuffles leadership


The union representing mechanics and machinists at Kansas City's endangered American Airlines overhaul base has lost its president in a sudden and unexplained leadership shuffle.

http://dc.bizjournals.com/event.ng/...s=&Redirect=http://www.bizjournals.com/leads/

With Butch Sponaugle no longer holding the top job at Transport Workers Union Local 530, First Vice President Gordon Clark has become acting president, officials said. The organization represents about 1,800 workers at the base east of Kansas City International Airport.


Secretary-Treasurer Orville Gerard declined to comment on the leadership change, as did Vice President David Tellefson, but Sponaugle apparently did not resign.


Neither Sponaugle nor Clark could be reached for comment.


The shakeup comes at an awkward time for the TWA-built overhaul base, which could be closed as American evaluates its performance compared with two other bases equipped for massive refittings of the airline's passenger jets.

 

[RV4]

It appears Deregulation does nothing but create Bankrupt Mis-Managed Carriers.

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 7/12/2003 2:37:34 PM RV4 wrote:


It appears Deregulation does nothing but create Bankrupt Mis-Managed Carriers.

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No...it also allowed airlines to grow and provide jobs to disgruntled welders.

 

[RV4]

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On 7/12/2003 4:34:01 PM KCFlyer wrote:

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On 7/12/2003 2:37:34 PM RV4 wrote:


It appears Deregulation does nothing but create Bankrupt Mis-Managed Carriers.

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No...it also allowed airlines to grow and provide jobs to disgruntled welders.

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Oh yeah, I forgot about that...Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Buck]

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On 7/12/2003 4:34:01 PM KCFlyer wrote:

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On 7/12/2003 2:37:34 PM RV4 wrote:


It appears Deregulation does nothing but create Bankrupt Mis-Managed Carriers.

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No...it also allowed airlines to grow and provide jobs to disgruntled welders.

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Why would RV4 be worried about his job. He has seniority. We the unionized workforce use to have something they referred to as seniority. It use to provide for some security and prestige. But today seniority is nothing. The TWU has seen to that. Seniority use to mean that you could look forward to higher wages, now the TWU has lowered that standard. Thanks for nothing TWU. Oh yes, mismanage airlines with a union that is in bed with the company. The B-Scale all the way to the latest concessionary contract. The TWU even deceives the AFL-CIO.

Directly from the AFL-CIO home page:

Why People Join Unions;

People who work for a living know about the inequality of power between employers and employees. Workers want to form unions so they can have a voice on the job to improve their lives, their families and their communities.

With a union, working people win basic rights, like a say in their jobs, safety and security. Unions help remedy discrimination because union contracts ensure that all workers are treated fairly and equally. When there’s a problem on the job, workers and management can work together as equals to solve it.

Higher union wages translate into stronger tax bases for our communities, better schools and infrastructures and healthier local economies. And when workers have a real say in their hours and working conditions, that means they can spend more quality time with their families.

Unions help make sure our nation prioritizes working people’s issues: unions hold corporations accountable, make workplaces safe, protect Social Security and retirement, fight for quality health care and ensure that working people have time to spend with their families.

The TWU cannot even complete this assignment.

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 7/12/2003 6:38:47 PM Buck wrote:

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On 7/12/2003 4:34:01 PM KCFlyer wrote:

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On 7/12/2003 2:37:34 PM RV4 wrote:



It appears Deregulation does nothing but create Bankrupt Mis-Managed Carriers.

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No...it also allowed airlines to grow and provide jobs to disgruntled welders.

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Why would RV4 be worried about his job. He has seniority. We the unionized workforce use to have something they referred to as seniority. It use to provide for some security and prestige. But today seniority is nothing. The TWU has seen to that. Seniority use to mean that you could look forward to higher wages, now the TWU has lowered that standard. Thanks for nothing TWU. Oh yes, mismanage airlines with a union that is in bed with the company. The B-Scale all the way to the latest concessionary contract. The TWU even deceives the AFL-CIO.

Directly from the AFL-CIO home page:

Why People Join Unions;

People who work for a living know about the inequality of power between employers and employees. Workers want to form unions so they can have a voice on the job to improve their lives, their families and their communities.

With a union, working people win basic rights, like a say in their jobs, safety and security. Unions help remedy discrimination because union contracts ensure that all workers are treated fairly and equally. When there’s a problem on the job, workers and management can work together as equals to solve it.

Higher union wages translate into stronger tax bases for our communities, better schools and infrastructures and healthier local economies. And when workers have a real say in their hours and working conditions, that means they can spend more quality time with their families.

Unions help make sure our nation prioritizes working people’s issues: unions hold corporations accountable, make workplaces safe, protect Social Security and retirement, fight for quality health care and ensure that working people have time to spend with their families.

The TWU cannot even complete this assignment.

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But Buck - if it were not for deregulation, the vast majority of disgruntled airline workers who were hired after 1978 would not be working for the airlines today - there simply wouldn''t have been the jobs created.

 

[RV4]

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On 7/13/2003 6:25:07 AM KCFlyer wrote:




But Buck - if it were not for deregulation, the vast majority of disgruntled airline workers who were hired after 1978 would not be working for the airlines today - there simply wouldn't have been the jobs created.
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Yeah right,


And if it were not for the automobile we would all be riding horses.

And if it were not for rubber tire, we would all be riding trains..

And if it were not for Jim Little and Greedy Management we all be making more money.

And if it were not for the disgruntled worker willing to maintain aircraft, greedy management and the industry wouldn't exist as we now know it.

And if it were not for KCFlyer defending them, USAviation BB wouldn't exist.

You are ate up with excuses aren't you? Ever thought about Excuses Anonymous? It's a twelve step program for those that are never wrong but cannot prove it.

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 7/13/2003 7:43:41 AM TDR1502C wrote:

Watch out RV4, he''ll threaten you with more CH.38 (or 78).


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Heck no...I''m still waiting for you to tell me how reregulating the airlines would help the employees. There''s extra points if you''re able to do it without an insult. Still waiting.

 

[TDR1502C]

Watch out RV4, he''ll threaten you with more CH.38 (or 78).

 

[RV4]

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On 7/13/2003 831 AM KCFlyer wrote:




You might want to check the "number of posts" field on the profiles and tell me who USAviation's BB depends on....
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Oh now we get it!

This is a game of "who has the most postings"!

Why didn't you just say so?

What is your stake in all this again?

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 7/13/2003 7:02:19 AM RV4 wrote:

And if it were not for KCFlyer defending them, USAviation BB wouldn''t exist.

You are ate up with excuses aren''t you? Ever thought about Excuses Anonymous? It''s a twelve step program for those that are never wrong but cannot prove it.​

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You might want to check the "number of posts" field on the profiles and tell me who USAviation''s BB depends on....

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 7/13/2003 8:54:53 AM TDR1502C wrote:

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On 7/13/2003 8:24:09 AM KCFlyer wrote:


Heck no...I''m still waiting for you to tell me how reregulating the airlines would help the employees.  There''s extra points if you''re able to do it without an insult.  Still waiting.

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By bringing back the original reason the CAB existed? I''ll skip on the extra points, though, as you don''t rate. Even CIO has credentials around here. You don''t. You don''t have a horse in this race.


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Hmmm...I don''t have a horse in this race, but you can''t come up with a rebuttal.