Mechanics Have Reason To Be Upset

[RV4]

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On 5/27/2003 8:22:03 AM eolesen wrote:

Are you saying you''d put politics ahead of safety?

Sorry, but anyone who thinks that union politics is affecting their on-the-job judgement should just hang up their wrench and walk away before they do something stupid.

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You and I do agree on a few things!

 

[b777conehead]

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On 5/22/2003 8:08:25 AM Get Over It Already wrote:

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On 5/22/2003 543 AM RV4 wrote:

TWU sucks is not near as tiresome as the management suck asses on the board who are now even informing us what Church the new CEO attends, and how that makes him different. Tell us, what does this Lutheran think about domestic partners, and being the #1 Gay/Lesbian Airline of choice?

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First we have circle jerks and then suck asses and now AMFA Dave is bringing up domestic partners and being the gay airline of choice.

Will AMFA preserve closet lifestyles and homophobia equally? 😉

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i for one I''m tired of the company complaining about insurance cost then raising our expense. but letting domestic partners be covered. its wrong to cover someone who is not your legal spouse with a marriage certificate.
and with the company hurting so much they payed for a float in the homosexual parade in dallas. thats wrong also spending money like that.

 

[RV4]

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On 5/27/2003 4:35:57 PM b777conehead wrote:

i for one I''m tired of the company complaining about insurance cost then raising our expense. but letting domestic partners be covered. its wrong to cover someone who is not your legal spouse with a marriage certificate.
and with the company hurting so much they payed for a float in the homosexual parade in dallas. thats wrong also spending money like that.

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Easy there conehead, you are going to awake the TWU sign making liberals!

 

[RV4]

Ever notice that the TWU wants to keep you focused on other airlines instead your own paycheck and how much less your bread and butter is these days?

I wonder why?

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

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On 6/4/2003 5:22:53 AM RV4 wrote:


Ever notice that the TWU wants to keep you focused on other airlines instead your own paycheck and how much less your bread and butter is these days?

I wonder why?

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Aren't you the one who started the topics "AA-SWA-NWA Mechanic Pay Comparison" and "The Next Major To Go AMFA"?

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 6/4/2003 1057 AM Buck wrote:

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When AMFA organizers start a thread about the subject they are attempting to change, of course they post about other airlines as a comparasion. But when we have internal problems at the TWU, the TWU Local 514 attempts to deflect focus on themselves by pushing issues at other airlines. They fail to focus at the source of the problem. They have every right to use all data available, however the membership in general is misinformed or not informed at all.

You appear to be siding with the TWU on a few threads lately Eric?

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Wouldn''t prudence dictate that to make an informed decision, potential voters should know the good things at select other airlines, along with the bad things at select other airlines, or at the very least, shouldn''t the union seeking to inform about the good things also address what THEY would do about the bad things?

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

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On 6/4/2003 1057 AM Buck wrote:

You appear to be siding with the TWU on a few threads lately Eric?

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No, I''m not siding with anyone, Buck. I could care less who you pay dues to.

Just pointing that it appears that the pot is calling the kettle black.

 

[Buck]

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On 6/4/2003 11:03:01 AM KCFlyer wrote:

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On 6/4/2003 1057 AM Buck wrote:

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When AMFA organizers start a thread about the subject they are attempting to change, of course they post about other airlines as a comparasion. But when we have internal problems at the TWU, the TWU Local 514 attempts to deflect focus on themselves by pushing issues at other airlines. They fail to focus at the source of the problem. They have every right to use all data available, however the membership in general is misinformed or not informed at all.

You appear to be siding with the TWU on a few threads lately Eric?

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Wouldn''t prudence dictate that to make an informed decision, potential voters should know the good things at select other airlines, along with the bad things at select other airlines, or at the very least, shouldn''t the union seeking to inform about the good things also address what THEY would do about the bad things?

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That is exactly right. The problem is that the TWU, at least Local 514 in TUL, focuses all of their assets on other airlines union issues. These assets need to be redirected to the membership that pays them to represent them.

 

[Buck]

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On 6/4/2003 9:39:23 AM eolesen wrote:

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On 6/4/2003 5:22:53 AM RV4 wrote:



Ever notice that the TWU wants to keep you focused on other airlines instead your own paycheck and how much less your bread and butter is these days?

I wonder why?

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Aren''t you the one who started the topics "AA-SWA-NWA Mechanic Pay Comparison" and "The Next Major To Go AMFA"?

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When AMFA organizers start a thread about the subject they are attempting to change, of course they post about other airlines as a comparasion. But when we have internal problems at the TWU, the TWU Local 514 attempts to deflect focus on themselves by pushing issues at other airlines. They fail to focus at the source of the problem. They have every right to use all data available, however the membership in general is misinformed or not informed at all.

You appear to be siding with the TWU on a few threads lately Eric?

 

[Buck]

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On 6/4/2003 11:08:45 AM eolesen wrote:

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On 6/4/2003 1057 AM Buck wrote:

You appear to be siding with the TWU on a few threads lately Eric?

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No, I''m not siding with anyone, Buck. I could care less who you pay dues to.

Just pointing that it appears that the pot is calling the kettle black.

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I just believe as a member of management, you should be impartial.

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 6/4/2003 1123 AM Buck wrote:




That is exactly right. The problem is that the TWU, at least Local 514 in TUL, focuses all of their assets on other airlines union issues. These assets need to be redirected to the membership that pays them to represent them.
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So why is it that nobody from AMFA is pointing out what they would do to handle the "bad" situation at AA that exists at the other airlines? It seems by posting that "NWA and SWA make more than you do" is only showing the sunny side of life in the AMFA. Another poster attempts to point out the "less sunny" side of life in the AMFA and he is jumped on pretty hard by the AMFA supporters. Not one of the posts that is pro AMFA addresses how AMFA would propose to maintain wages and benefits while at the same time, working with management to control costs.

 

[KCFlyer]

Then how come the grassroots organizers are loathe to use as their rallying cry "C''mon junior guys - sacrifice your livlihood so that the rest of us can keep our wages and benefits."? You can tell a guy all day long that a vote for AMFA is a vote for wages that are $15 an hour more than you''re currently making. Why Southwest is making way more than you guys, and they are even hiring more. After a while, that starts to sound nice. Except that AA is in no position to give everybody a $15 an hour raise. Why not tell what the the price of that extra $15 will be for several thousand of the less senior mechanics?

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

I just believe as a member of management, you should be impartial.
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I believe I am, Buck. Ignoring statements which I know to be false would be showing partiality to the person who made them.

I think you'll find that during the past four years or so, I've regularly pointed out false or contradictory statements, regardless of who makes them.

My legal obligation as a manager is to remain neutral and not to favor one side over the other in their quest for representation.

For the record, I am totally impartial when it comes to the issue of who represents a particular workgroup.

Again, who you choose to represent you is your call.

 

[Buck]

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On 6/4/2003 1:02:17 PM KCFlyer wrote:


Then how come the grassroots organizers are loathe to use as their rallying cry "C''mon junior guys - sacrifice your livlihood so that the rest of us can keep our wages and benefits."? You can tell a guy all day long that a vote for AMFA is a vote for wages that are $15 an hour more than you''re currently making. Why Southwest is making way more than you guys, and they are even hiring more. After a while, that starts to sound nice. Except that AA is in no position to give everybody a $15 an hour raise. Why not tell what the the price of that extra $15 will be for several thousand of the less senior mechanics?

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I believe that the less senior mechanics understand this to some extent. There is some theory that when the industy does turn around that it would be beneficial to those recalled to be able to come back at a good wage. Why is AA not in the position to give $15 an hour raises? They have had the lowest average wages in the industry since 1983. You sir speak of mismangement of the company. What did the company do with all of that savings?

 

[j7915]

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On 6/4/2003 1123 AM Buck wrote:

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On 6/4/2003 11:03:01 AM KCFlyer wrote:

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On 6/4/2003 1057 AM Buck wrote:

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When AMFA organizers start a thread about the subject they are attempting to change, of course they post about other airlines as a comparasion. But when we have internal problems at the TWU, the TWU Local 514 attempts to deflect focus on themselves by pushing issues at other airlines. They fail to focus at the source of the problem. They have every right to use all data available, however  the membership in general is misinformed or not informed at all.


You appear to be siding with the TWU on a few threads lately Eric?


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Wouldn''t prudence dictate that to make an informed decision, potential voters should know the good things at select other airlines, along with the bad things at select other airlines, or at the very least, shouldn''t the union seeking to inform about the good things also address what THEY would do about the bad things? 


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That is exactly right. The problem is that the TWU, at least Local 514 in TUL, focuses all of their assets on other airlines union issues. These assets need to be redirected to the membership that pays them to represent them.

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I missed something here, when and where has the TWU Local 514 focused "assets" I guess you mean capital on the problems of other airlines? How about some examples? I have not attended membership meetings in a long time.

If your concern is that the local''s officials are pointing out that the grass may not be greener, just painted, on the other side that is hardly a miss-use of their time.

Why don''t you start laying out the blueprint as to what WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENTLY? Don''t cop out by saying that that will be up to the membership, or we don''t want to give the game plan away. Lay out a blueprint. Even the Bolshies under Lenin knew where they were going and how they intended to get there.

It is pretty obvious that the membership like the population at large is 80% occupied with their daily lives, and politics is at most 10% activists.

The atmosphere is about right at AA for AMFA to make a move, turmoil from lay-offs, bumping, a paycut, company reviewing attendance records. Just the kind of things that get people worked up and willing to vote for "change", and to throw "the rascals out".

The waters are now muddy enough for Dell to go fishing.