Maintenance bidding

[1AA]

You cant work for another airline and collect the pension.

Just like the Teamsters. What a scam to keep you from collecting what is yours.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

La la, plus add in all the extra hours put in commuting, a lower hourly wage without the commuting and additional expenses may not result in less money to spend.
 

You may make less money (then again you may make more) on the hour but, when you figure in a second rent, a second set of utilities, and fuel cost (running back and forth to the airport) you may find a lower paying job actually pays more. 

I thought I said that.

 

[AANOTOK]

He is a US employee, what is in your TWU CBA has nothing to do with what happens to him.
 
PM US is still covered under the IAM/US CBA.
 
Nothing changes until PMUS M&R get a new CBA and/or when a JCBA is negotiated and ratified.

And I'm an AA employee and the US CBA has nothing to do with me...yet I must abide by HIS (US) CBA
and non-rev by DOH...Geeez!
 
Sorry for the hijack...continue

 

[Real tired]

You cant work for another airline and collect the pension.

 
If you have reached normal retirement age, your pension
benefits will be suspended for any month in which:
■■ You work 40 or more hours in any industry and
geographical area which was covered by the Plan
when you retired, and
■■ Your employment is in any trade or craft in which
you worked at any time under the Plan after your
contribution date, which is generally the date on which
a contributing employer first became obligated to
make contributions to the Plan (or a prior plan) on
your behalf.
If you have not reached normal retirement age, you cannot
receive pension benefits and work for a contributing
employer or for any other employer — including selfemployment
— in the same or related business or industry
from which you retired, regardless of the number of hours
worked or the geographical area in which you worked.
Further, you may not work in any employment that would
be disqualifying employment at normal retirement age.
Your pension benefits will not be suspended after you
have reached the date at which benefits must be paid
automatically — generally, the later of the April 1st
following the year during which you retire or the April 1st
following the year during which you reach age 70½.
(See

 

[Real tired]

If you are affected by a RIF and there a junior people or openings around the system you can fill or bump. If you go to the street you put in a wish list of stations to be recalled to, when an opening occurs at one of those stations you are proffered (by seniority) to fill it. If you turn it down you are done.

 
Sir,
Thanks for answering the OP and my question.
 
Is it almost a Junority system, whereby if affected by a RIF, you bump the junior man in the SYSTEM, instead of the junior man in your classification, in the station of your choice?

 

[Deleted member 14439]

 
Sir,
Thanks for answering the OP and my question.
 
Is it almost a Junority system, whereby if affected by a RIF, you bump the junior man in the SYSTEM, instead of the junior man in your classification, in the station of your choice?

Yep. That's what we have. The ever popular "Junority" system. It`s stupid and I hope we can get rid of it with the new JCBA.

 

[DallasConehead]

Sir,
Thanks for answering the OP and my question.
 
Is it almost a Junority system, whereby if affected by a RIF, you bump the junior man in the SYSTEM, instead of the junior man in your classification, in the station of your choice?

Well, if you are being rif'd from a station then you should be one of the junior people in that station/classification, unless you are in a higher class, like inspector or CC then you could bump to the floor assuming there are people with less time.

 

[Bob Owens]

Yes the Juniority system, which is anti-union, was sold as a gain but was a concession given in 1983. It was called a gain because those who were riffed and protected got an additional $12000 on top of the moving expenses. So now we are left with an anti union bumping system without the $12000 (which was never even adjusted for inflation).

 

[Realityck]

Yes the Juniority system, which is anti-union, was sold as a gain but was a concession given in 1983. It was called a gain because those who were riffed and protected got an additional $12000 on top of the moving expenses. So now we are left with an anti union bumping system without the $12000 (which was never even adjusted for inflation).

 
 
 
I have to disagree with you Bob. You are wrong about both your RIF Juniority issue which you claim was a concession in 1983, and the re-location allowance which provided System Protected AMT’s being laid-off $12,500, not  $12,000, in addition to a $5,000 moving allowance.
 
1958 Contract:  Article (15), par (b)(2) in the 1958 contract stated if he has two (2) or more years of seniority he may exercise his seniority to displace *the employee hereunder with the least system seniority in his own classification or any lower classification.
 
That application was changed soon afterwards since it created a situation where the senior AMT being laid off either agreed to displace the most junior AMT who might be in SJU, or be forced to take layoff. That effectively blocked the exercise of seniority by remaining senior AMT’s being laid-off who didn’t want to choose SJU and thereby shielded junior AMT’s at more favorable stations from displacement.
 
1995 Contract: Article (15) par (b) (4) if he has two (2) or more years of seniority, he may exercise his seniority to displace the employee **or employees hereunder, as outlined in (f), with the least system seniority in his own classification or any lower classification, in either a full-time or part-time position in which he has successfully passed a prequalification test.
 
           * singular       ** plural

 

[lpbrian]

I think Owens is wrong. The juniority system is pro-union. If layoffs occur, your seniority protects you . I thought seniority protects. Sounds like Owens favors the Tulsa losers

 

[Bob Owens]

Delta uses a Juniority system, pretty much all the Union shops, except AA, let you exercise your seniority wherever it takes you.  So I guess in your book Delta is right and all the other unions are wrong as far as what is union and what is anti-union.
 
Do I think we should change it now? NO.
 
We didn't change it for the guys in BDL, PHL, AFW or any of the other stations that closed or had RIFs over the years I see no reason to change it now just because Tulsa is going through a transition. Maybe after that gets all settled out we can revisit it at our next negotiations in 2018 if Tulsa still exists. They voted it in, now we all have to live with it.
 
But fundamentally its anti union, and its what the company wanted so they didn't have to pay multiple moving/training costs for each person they layoff and it would allow them to RIF as they please with as little disruption and expense to the company as possible.  By limiting the choices more people simply take the street as well, just like in non-union companies when they lay off.
 
As a Union man do I think its right that a 30 year guy should only have the option to go to a station he doesn't want to go to through no fault of his own while a junior man occupies a position in a station that's more acceptable for whatever reason? NO. Don't we call it "System Seniority"? But there are so many flaws in our agreement that fixing that one, which at this time would only accomodate the same group (apologies to the 26%ers) that imposed all the other flaws is very low priority and as I said before they voted for it, they have to live with it.

 

[Bob Owens]

I have to disagree with you Bob. You are wrong about both your RIF Juniority issue which you claim was a concession in 1983, and the re-location allowance which provided System Protected AMTs being laid-off $12,500, not  $12,000, in addition to a $5,000 moving allowance.
 
1958 Contract:  Article (15), par (b)(2) in the 1958 contract stated if he has two (2) or more years of seniority he may exercise his seniority to displace *the employee hereunder with the least system seniority in his own classification or any lower classification.
 
That application was changed soon afterwards since it created a situation where the senior AMT being laid off either agreed to displace the most junior AMT who might be in SJU, or be forced to take layoff. That effectively blocked the exercise of seniority by remaining senior AMTs being laid-off who didnt want to choose SJU and thereby shielded junior AMTs at more favorable stations from displacement.
 
1995 Contract: Article (15) par (b) (4) if he has two (2) or more years of seniority, he may exercise his seniority to displace the employee **or employees hereunder, as outlined in (f), with the least system seniority in his own classification or any lower classification, in either a full-time or part-time position in which he has successfully passed a prequalification test.
 
           * singular       ** plural

Ed, if you want to quibble about the omission of $500 fine. If I had said that they received $13000, that would be wrong, but having said $12000 that was still correct, because they did recieve $12000, before taxes, plus $500. As we know very well the omission of information does not make it wrong or a lie, thats something I've learned from the many dissapointments over the years here with our contracts. There was no intent to deceive and the omission was purely driven by laziness but the substance of what I was saying remains unchanged.

The fact remains it was a concession that the company wanted and got. Its anti-union because it denied a member who has system seniority the right to exercise his seniority within the system. It only lets him bump the most Junior man in the system and take his position and not any position where his seniority would carry him like most other Union contracts in the industry. The Juniority system is nearly identical to what Delta, a non union company uses.

 

[Rogallo]

Ed, who?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I think Owens is wrong. The juniority system is pro-union. If layoffs occur, your seniority protects you . I thought seniority protects. Sounds like Owens favors the Tulsa losers

Bob never said the junior people should not have protection. What he is saying is that junior people are given more desirable bump options than senior people during a RIF because they are "first in line".
 
The company is the main benefactor of this situation because it reduces their cost during a RIF.
 
American Airlines is all too happy to throw their more senior employees under the bus to save money.
 
If we are misunderstanding your position then you need to clarify your statement.

 

[eolesen]

Don't try to hang the responsibility for juniority on the company -- I really don't think AA cares as much about the pay issue, especially when so many people are sitting at the top of scale.

As I recall, going to juniority was the trade-off for getting the $12.5K and keeping station protection. With both essentially gone, the process should revert to what it was pre-1995.

If you are a true unionist, bump & roll is entirely fair. Seems to me that you've got a situation where too many union members only want to be union when it benefits them...