maint?

[DAL Mech]

I'm not doubting that... but my question is have you ever corrected an error of a coworker?
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And have you seen work that has been incorrectly done by any other US mechanic, including that done by a mechanic at another airline?
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And do you think that DL runs a good maintenance operation and is able to correct whatever problems might exist with its aircraft regardless of whether they are a result of aircraft that have problems in service or as a result of problems with repairs either from DL mechanics or something from outsourced mechanics.

When we did our overhauls, it was routine for the airplane to return from its verification flight with a clean log book. I have personally gotten airplanes from our wonderful outsourced overhaul facilities that come straight from them to us and had to work a dozen items before we could put the a/c back into service. Th MD88's are the worst.

We did them faster and better. End of story.


Do our mechanics make mistakes? Of course, we are all human, but in the end we turn out a much superior product.

 

[700UW]

Dont you know, WT is DL's biggest cheerleader, yet he has no idea of what happens behind the scenes.

 

[WorldTraveler]

When we did our overhauls, it was routine for the airplane to return from its verification flight with a clean log book. I have personally gotten airplanes from our wonderful outsourced overhaul facilities that come straight from them to us and had to work a dozen items before we could put the a/c back into service. Th MD88's are the worst.

We did them faster and better. End of story.


Do our mechanics make mistakes? Of course, we are all human, but in the end we turn out a much superior product.

yet, somehow, DL, a profitable airline and other airlines which have managed to figure out how to make money even in recessions, have figured out that it is possible to outsource some aspects of the maintenance operation, ensure proper checks before those planes are put back in service, and still run a high enough quality maintenance operation that other airlines are willing to give you and your DL Tech Ops colleagues (via DL's bank accounts, mind you) $500 million to fix THEIR planes.
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Is it possible that even w/ the work that you have to do after those planes come back from MRO overhaul, the total job gets done cheaper than it would have been done if it had been done totally inhouse, and you and other mechanics as well as DL pilots serve the purpose of ensuring that the planes are in airworthy condition?
You do realize that DL's facilities couldn't possibly overhaul its fleet inhouse and the only option would be to build new or reoccupy some of the facilities which DL and/or NW gave up and there is no assurance (according to Bob Owens on the AA forum) that DL could even find enough mechanics to properly staff those newly opened overhaul lines?
I am quite sure that you can do the work faster but I would also bet that DL has factored in the cost of having two or three additional aircraft in their fleet of 750 in order to cover the increased turn times for MRO overhaul vendors.
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Living in the current reality says that there is no viable airline in the Americas that does all of its overhauls in-house; figuring out how to survive in the world that has changed over the past 10 years and thrive is what has set DL apart from other airlines with respect to Tech Ops.
While other airlines have chosen to outsource with little benefit for DL mechanics, DL has chosen to insource where it makes sense, higher new mechanics and create high value revenue streams for the company which benefit not only DL Tech Ops but employees throughout the company.
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Understanding how to not just survive but also thrive in the midst of an ever-changing world is what separates the "also-rans" of the world from the leaders, regardless of the field that is being discussed.

 

[DAL Mech]

yet, somehow, DL, a profitable airline and other airlines which have managed to figure out how to make money even in recessions, have figured out that it is possible to outsource some aspects of the maintenance operation, ensure proper checks before those planes are put back in service, and still run a high enough quality maintenance operation that other airlines are willing to give you and your DL Tech Ops colleagues (via DL's bank accounts, mind you) $500 million to fix THEIR planes.
.
Is it possible that even w/ the work that you have to do after those planes come back from MRO overhaul, the total job gets done cheaper than it would have been done if it had been done totally inhouse, and you and other mechanics as well as DL pilots serve the purpose of ensuring that the planes are in airworthy condition?
You do realize that DL's facilities couldn't possibly overhaul its fleet inhouse and the only option would be to build new or reoccupy some of the facilities which DL and/or NW gave up and there is no assurance (according to Bob Owens on the AA forum) that DL could even find enough mechanics to properly staff those newly opened overhaul lines?
I am quite sure that you can do the work faster but I would also bet that DL has factored in the cost of having two or three additional aircraft in their fleet of 750 in order to cover the increased turn times for MRO overhaul vendors.
.
Living in the current reality says that there is no viable airline in the Americas that does all of its overhauls in-house; figuring out how to survive in the world that has changed over the past 10 years and thrive is what has set DL apart from other airlines with respect to Tech Ops.
While other airlines have chosen to outsource with little benefit for DL mechanics, DL has chosen to insource where it makes sense, higher new mechanics and create high value revenue streams for the company which benefit not only DL Tech Ops but employees throughout the company.
.
Understanding how to not just survive but also thrive in the midst of an ever-changing world is what separates the "also-rans" of the world from the leaders, regardless of the field that is being discussed.

Yes, taking the aircraft out of country and taking twice as long to complete an overhaul makes perfect sense. If you can tell me having the aircraft out of service longer makes it cheaper Id be very impressed.


Seems to me if they can build a hangar in Mexico, they could build one here. There are communities all over this country that could use the kind of money a overhaul facility could bring to an area.

Understand something, I love my job, I like the company I work for, but they made a mistake. The sooner they bring work back inhouse the better off we will all be. Its only a matter of time before there is a tragic accident as a result of "saving a few bucks'.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Yes, taking the aircraft out of country and taking twice as long to complete an overhaul makes perfect sense. If you can tell me having the aircraft out of service longer makes it cheaper Id be very impressed.


Seems to me if they can build a hangar in Mexico, they could build one here. There are communities all over this country that could use the kind of money a overhaul facility could bring to an area.

Understand something, I love my job, I like the company I work for, but they made a mistake. The sooner they bring work back inhouse the better off we will all be. Its only a matter of time before there is a tragic accident as a result of "saving a few bucks'.

Obviously there are aircraft in DL's fleet such as the M80 and 757 which are not high value aircraft... the 763 fleet has significant amounts of slack in its usage for significant periods of time during the year. The cost of having a few extra older aircraft in the fleet to cover the longer MRO turn times is not as high as some might believe, esp. in light of the seasonal peaks in the DL flight schedule - there are fairly small periods of the year when DL really needs "all hands on deck."
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Sure they could build a hangar here or reopen some of the ones that have been closed - but they couldn't staff them w/ labor that would accept wages Mexican workers will accept.. and that is the crux of the argument.
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We have heard the "it's only a matter of time argument" for years.... I hope IT never happens, regardless of who did the work - and you would agree. The reality is that US airlines are safer now than they ever have been and the industry has learned an enormous amount about how to operate even on a shoestring - and still be safe. It would appear that US airlines - as well as many others around the world have figured out how to manage their outsourcing to protect the interests of all involved.
Remember that if a plane goes down because of bad maintenance, the public doesn't really care who was at fault... the company could be so damaged that it couldn't recover. You can look at Valujet to see how costly unsupervised outsourcing became. I don't see any evidence that any US airlines are willing to risk a repeat of that situation.
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I am glad to hear you like your job and your employer. I would far prefer to see DL and every other US airline not outsource ANY jobs.. but that isn't realistic in today's marketplace. What is realistic is figuring out to win in the competitive situation that exists today... and I think DL has done as good of a job as any other US airline, if not a better job.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

but they couldn't staff them w/ labor that would accept wages Mexican workers will accept..

wow, now that's ugly, even coming from you!

 

[DAL Mech]

wow, now that's ugly, even coming from you!

Ugly or not, its true.

 

[WorldTraveler]

wow, now that's ugly, even coming from you!

the term "accept" is used in an economic sense.
We all have our prices and the mere fact is that American workers won't work for the salaries that many foreign workers do.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

the term "accept" is used in an economic sense.
We all have our prices and the mere fact is that American workers won't work for the salaries that many foreign workers do.

Hey, I got it! Let's let inmates work on them and negotiate a deal with them on their time served, that way the companies aren't paying anything! And when they get out, they will have learned a trade! :huh: <_<

 

[Airlinelifer]

the term "accept" is used in an economic sense.
We all have our prices and the mere fact is that American workers won't work for the salaries that many foreign workers do.

If your agreeing with managements view then your putting economics ahead of safety and cutting jobs from American workers. All airline maintenance technicians would want to have all the work done in-house. It started with the contracting out component shops to MRO's (where less than 10% of the mechanics have an FAA maintenance license). Now the airlines are farming out Heavy Maintenance (where a large percentage of the unlicensed mechanics work UNDER a Supervisor that IS licensed). Not only does the repair take longer to do, our airline techs have to spend time repairing the repair. Plus, the FAA DOES NOT HAVE THE MANPOWER for proper oversight of over 5,000 repair stations around the world.

Read the following investigative report: PBS FRONTLINE in conjuction with Investigative Reporting Workshop : Airlines outsource repairs, but cost-cutting leads to weaker oversight.

PS If every product or service can be made or performed cheaper overseas, then which product or service will be next to be made or serviced overseas, when will it end?

 

[southwind]

Too many...

This coming from an IAM member who did nothing to backup AMFA members, simply becacuse of a vendetta the IAM had against the AMT's for them being booted by said AMT's, in favor of AMFA representation...........................Union Brethren 'til the end or until one of us holds a grudge !

 

[southwind]

Not all the scabs have 2005 hire dates either. There were quite a few PMNW scabs that had pretty good seniority that crossed as well.

When the seniority list were merged, there were approx. 300 NW AMT's with some time and some 500 AMT's with 2005 and later, hire dates ,bringing the total number of NW employees on DL payroll to approx. 800 !

 

[Kev3188]

This coming from an IAM member who did nothing to backup AMFA members,

... And ^this^ coming from someone who truly has no clue...

A little due diligence on your part would really go a long way. Take some time and root through the old threads from that era...