Luv Into Phl

[Pacemaker]

Ever since the California debacle everyone's been telling Schofield, then Wolf, now Dave, that you can't run forever, you can't put all your eggs in one basket. It's only been, what, 13 years that this failed strategy has doggedly and obstinately been pursued in the face of all reason.

The Maginot Line has been breached. Au revoir.

 

[7.5victim]

i wonder what Airtran has to say about this. Airtran has been the biggest low-fare carrier in PHL for a while. I wonder if we can expect more of an Airtran buildup before Southwest enters the market.

If WN does what I think they'll do, FL will have no problem co-existing with WN in Philly.

With the exception of BOS and ATL, FL's primary focus in PHL is the leisure traveller. MCO, TPA, and FLL nonstops. You could even argue that the ATL service is heavily leisure, to feed the hub. BOS service isn't really going to be affected, in fact, I'd say PVD and MHT won't be in the inital service from PHL because of it. I don't know if FL will be able to respond by next May. I don't think the 737's will be coming on line in time. The 717 will prevent them from being able to fully steal WN's thunder.

I suspect that PHL will start by skimming some major cream from US, not by going after FL's leisure biz. MDW, STL, and RDU will certainly be in the initial destinations. Hopefully someone will see the fares CO and US charge biz travellers for a regional jet seat, and open up service to cities like CLE, IND, BNA, BHM, et al.

Then, I'd also expect a few long haul destinations to really poke at US. LAX, OAK, LAS, and maybe even SEA.

My hunch is that they'll open the city by focusing solely on O&D traffic. The market is big enough, and will be easy to stimulate through new low fare service.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

OH no! Another FORCE MAJEUR event! :blink:

 

[MarkMyWords]

I have to say I am totally shocked to see WN coming to an airport like PHL. I nearly fell over when I read the press release. I thought for sure that if WN was going to attack the PHL m arket it would be from BWI, AVP, ABE, etc. NEver in my wildest dreams did I think they were coming in head to head, specifically because of the ATC issues there. Yesterday is a prime example. Rain and low ceilings in PHL caused delays ranging from 30 minutes to 2.5 hours....because of rain. This is totally off the mark for WN so you can see the buzzards flying overhead.

Operationally this will continue to push the airport to the brink on a good day, imagine next June, July and August with the T-Storm season. As I have advocated many times before, the time has come to rework how we operate in PHL. With the addition of 5 new RJ's each month starting in Jan or Feb, we need to look at our PHL operation and make it a continuous flow hub - similar to how WN runs it's BWI focus city. Productivity increases, fuel costs drop, aircraft utilization rises, traffic flow into/out of the airport become steady versus extreme peaks and valleys. I recently saw a report that directly attributed 5 million dollars in direct costs to the PHL hub and misconnected customers and bags. While there are initiatives being discussed to try and fix the problems, I personally feel that they fall short of addressing the real operational problems in PHL.

As others have said, you can already hear the Dave message for Friday.....Doom, doom, doom. Dave, you have a choice. Continue to beat your employees down into the dark dismal hole you've created, or take this opportunity to inspire and motivate your employees. We have a common enemy approaching or heart and soul, it is time to circle the wagons, draw a line in the sand and take an aggressive stance and COMPETE! A true leader will inspire his/her employees to stand and fight. What you and your team of executives decide to do as a competitive response needs to spark employees to rise to the challenges ahead. DO NOT use this announcement to beat employees up side the head again.

Folks, make no mistake, WN has fired a shot across the bow of this ship we call US Airways and there is no where left for us to run.

 

[Flying Titan]

Clue -
I start with the assumption that seems obvious to me - US no longer wants to be in PIT. If it has to supply additional resources to do battel with LUV in PHL, then it seems most likely to draw those resources from its least desirable hub anyway - PIT. I don't imagine that they'll pull lower-cost/higher-yield flying from the hub at CLT, or focus cities DCA, LGA, or BOS.

As for the potential move to IAD. I, too, have mixed feelings about how well that could work, but I don't dismiss it out of hand. First of all, it's not between BWI and PHL. Anyone living near IAD knows it's a long miserable haul through Northern VA traffic and then DC/MD traffic before you get to BWI - and add another 90 minutes before you reach PHL. The Northern VA region has grown so much over the last decade that I barely recognize it, and I lived there for years! It's not just a DC suburb anymore, in many ways, it's its own market. Yes, much of the growth has been in the high tech arena, but that won't stay depressed forever. In fact, it's already making something of a comeback - just look at the price trends for tech stocks over the last year. It's not quite the Clinton-era go-go 90s, but money is being made. Also, beyond tech firms, the DC-area is among the wealthiest in the nation, making it very attractive for O&D. The biggest problem with IAD may be IAD itself. Though I still find the terminal beautiful (especially at night), it's design would never fly if built today. It's just a pain in the A@@. Still, on balance, I think it's a better fit for US than PIT - and IF the costs can be made reasonable - then I wouldn't be surprised to see them make the move.

As for the anti-trust concerns at IAD, I actually think Chip Munn is right on this issue. The industry has changed dramatically since the proposed US/UA merger. US is smaller. UA is smaller. The DC market is somewhat more fragmented than it was at the time. LCCs have moved into all three of the region's airports. Also - and this is big - the government now has an interest in seeing US succeed, so I would imagine that will help tip the scales in US's favor. This was a reason that some opposed the loan guarantee program in the first place - and their arguments had some merit.

 

[7.5victim]

And while goofball employees at these LCC's are willing to work for 1/2 the wages and a fraction of the benefits historically available at REAL airlines, the rest of us are simply doomed. A "gracious" thank you to all the pilots, f/a's, mech's etc. willing to work for pennies on the airline dollar to drive the good paying jobs into utter extinction.

Nothing like showing your ignorance. I can tell you that starting wages on the ramp at companys like FL are more than they are at many legacy carriers. WN F/A are also among the best paid in the industry. They just also happen to be a lot more productive than their counterparts at US. Oh yeah, doesn't B6 also have a profit sharing program? It's all about the productivity my friend. The LCC's have been able to change the pay matrix, and focus on productivity. WN, FL, and B6 all get more productivity out of the same dollar they spend on labor. Those of you who think your customers should all be paying prices that do not reflect the value received in return are only fooling yourselves.

 

[Ch. 12]

...and it also goes to show that it's not just about the money to the LCC employees. They actually care about what they are doing and that comes out in their productivity...and THAT is why the passengers are flocking to FL/B6/WN.

 

[USAirBoyA330]

Markmywords:

You are 100% correct and yes, there is NOWHERE left to run. Sadly, this CEO and management team will just use this as another battering ram for employees so it will deflect attention away from them. They really don't have a clue and are in so far over their heads that it isn't funny. But, every puzzle has a solution and every box has a way out if you look hard enough. So beat the bushes and turn the stones CCY because, it's time to fight! Now would be a very appropriate time for Mr. Bronner to make some much need changes at the helm of this ship because, the current leadership is without a rudder and the water is getting deeper.

 

[FlyingHippie]

PineyBob, I am voting the cockroaches into office. I am glad you are as "bugged" by the pitiful attitude on here. You're right, Herb is trying to steal food from our babies, our cars, our homes. I am so sick of Southwest! That awful baby #### yellow paint job makes me wanna puke. Dammit everybody, put away the Jack Daniels, put both your shoes on, get the deer rifles ready, and dammit, stand up to these wankers defend your honor. It's time for a Southwest "Deliverence".

 

[phllax]

The one thing that could help with this is if the city decides to totally to revamp the whole airport, and rebuild with 2 parallel runways while keeping the existing airport open. This surely would make SW want to pull a SFO. OF course then everybody would be sitting in delays.

If the end does come, I don't think the airport will want for tenants. AirTran, United, Mesa, Northwest and now Southwest will eagerly fill the gap. I would place money on the fact that NW would become the premiere tenant of A-West.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

PineyBob, I am voting the cockroaches into office. I am glad you are as "bugged" by the pitiful attitude on here. You're right, Herb is trying to steal food from our babies, our cars, our homes. I am so sick of Southwest! That awful baby #### yellow paint job makes me wanna puke. Dammit everybody, put away the Jack Daniels, put both your shoes on, get the deer rifles ready, and dammit, stand up to these wankers defend your honor. It's time for a Southwest "Deliverence".

This guy has lost touch with reality. Advocating armed response to a business threat?

Please get help.

 

[FlyingHippie]

For the record, Southwest has been driven out of a city, Denver! Clearly, Herb is looking at PHL kind of like they looked at TWA in STL. What disturbs me is, what's next, CLT? Folks, this could be an industry sanctioned "gang bang" on our company. Everybody complaining about over capacity, well, one way to fix that is to go after the airline industry runts, US and United.

 

[tadjr]

Using Terminal E will enable Southwest to land one of its 737 jets, unload, board new passengers, and taxi out for takeoff, all in about 30 minutes - its standard flight turnaround at most airports. Terminal E offers the ability to accomplish that because its is near the east end of the airport, where jets usually start their takeoff roll.



I guess they havent actually been in PHL some afternoons and watched the lines of planes going past E. When there is no where to push off the gate to go to it doesnt matter how close you are to the runway...
This is truly a strange departure for WN, but many are saying that WN continues to change its tried and true business plan and wonder what the effects will eventually be. A WN plane sitting in PHL for 2 hours waiting for ATC will surely wreck havoc on even a small part of their system. I am surprised that they would head to PHL directly instead of ABE or TTN. This will be interesting to say the least.

Whatcha going to do CCY boyz? The game isnt on a board (and for most of us front line people has never been), so what do you want us to do?

 

[FlyingHippie]

whatkindoffreshhell, it was a tongue-in-cheek reply. No going postal here.

 

[7.5victim]

For the record, Southwest has been driven out of a city, Denver!

Geez, do some homework before shooting yer mouth off...

WN wasn't DRIVEN out of DEN. They chose to leave. WN realized very quickly that costs at DEN were out of line with their business model. They tried work with DEN for a win/win, but DEN wasn't interested. So WN simply closed the operation and moved their airplanes to a more profitable location. But they certainly were not driven out of DEN by competition...