Lowering The Standards Of The A&P At AA

[787nightmare]

"We have Production Control Planners that are now Supervisors"

"informer"...this is nothing new. They told me in my interview back in '06 as a scheduler, "we like to pull Supervisor candidates from PC schedulers, would this something you'd be interested in?"
(I told them "I was open to opportunities"----hey...somebodys got a do it, personally I'd rather a guy that has turned wrenches before be MY supervisor(rare)).

 

[Mr Red]

"We have Production Control Planners that are now Supervisors"

"informer"...this is nothing new. They told me in my interview back in '06 as a scheduler, "we like to pull Supervisor candidates from PC schedulers, would this something you'd be interested in?"
(I told them "I was open to opportunities"----hey...somebodys got a do it, personally I'd rather a guy that has turned wrenches before be MY supervisor(rare)).

Thats the way it used to be!!

 

[Vortilon]

Exactly what are you saying Vortilon, you should be paid more at my expense. Or, I make too much, therefore you can't realize your maximum pay.
I use to think you were correct when stating we are doing things your title was and should still be doing. But with an attitude like yours, I may
just have to rethink that and start thinking like you and hope we get more of your work to further solidify our titles job security.

Really, you have to ask? Sorry, if you think I have an attitude. The outcome of any debate on who gets the work between FSCs and A/C Maint. and why - is almost always inevitable. FSCs win out because the TWU doesn't care who does the work, as long as they are receiving dues from somebody. They take the path of least resistance in that debate with management.

You're reading too much into what I stated, if you think I'm saying "we AMTs should be paid more at FSCs expense". On the contrary, I think the AMTs are subsidizing the PT FSCs medical benefits with the "NO CAP" on how much we pay monthly for medical coverage. About double that of Flight Attendants for the same coverage. Just one of the "flow through" benefits of being in this type of union. I don't wish anybody ill will in obtaining the best contract they can get in their negotiations with the company.

My point is that it is hard enough negotiating when you understand the issues of your work group through personal experience, and daily interaction with co-workers. Now having been in two different hub station FSC locals, I have first hand experience in the mindsets of the clerks. The lines of what is important to AMTs vs whats important to FSCs tend to blur in favor of FSCs. Bad experience? maybe.

Regarding the "riding the coat tails" statement, well lets just say I heard from one of our AMT negotiators what he was told when he asked the FSCs negotiators what their game plan was going in. They replied "we will get whatever the mechanics get with the me too clause". He had no reason to lie about this. It is hard enough to get everybody in the same work group on the same page, let alone mixing in other title groups. Of course there is going to be controversy.

Like I said before, I hope all work groups do well in negotiations. BTW: if you get any more of our work - you will be signing off logbooks.......

 

[Bob Owens]

Regarding having a FSC being the president of the largest AMT local in the system. He may or may not know the the job, if he does - well great. You will never convince me his heart would be in it - during negotiations for AMTs. FSCs have ridden the coat tails of AMTs for years. If that's not enough, they have taken work from us as well. I don't care if he's a nice guy or not; bottom line, an AMT should be president of local 514. There has to be more than a few AMTs that could handle the position without selling their soul.

Didnt the Tulsa Title I President(s) say to vote yes for the TA (and every other concessionary contract) while Sam recommeneded a no vote as soon as he took office saying there wasnt enough there?

We have blamed FSC for years but the fact is that mechanics, and mechanics only ratified the deals. FSCs allowed our work to be added to their job description, at the time many thought they would get the pay as well, but we simply didnt fight for the work. I really dont see where they are riding on our coat tails. Their pay has declined more than ours and we simply never got our act together to vote NO, except this past August.

 

[Bob Owens]

You're reading too much into what I stated, if you think I'm saying "we AMTs should be paid more at FSCs expense". On the contrary, I think the AMTs are subsidizing the PT FSCs medical benefits with the "NO CAP" on how much we pay monthly for medical coverage. About double that of Flight Attendants for the same coverage. Just one of the "flow through" benefits of being in this type of union. Like I said before, I hope all work groups do well in negotiations. BTW: if you get any more of our work - you will be signing off logbooks.......

Well you are subsidizing the company for the Part time gate agents , pilots and FAs medical as well. We were stupid enough to agree to that, dont blame them.

 

[Vortilon]

Didnt the Tulsa Title I President(s) say to vote yes for the TA (and every other concessionary contract) while Sam recommeneded a no vote as soon as he took office saying there wasnt enough there?

We have blamed FSC for years but the fact is that mechanics, and mechanics only ratified the deals. FSCs allowed our work to be added to their job description, at the time many thought they would get the pay as well, but we simply didnt fight for the work. I really dont see where they are riding on our coat tails. Their pay has declined more than ours and we simply never got our act together to vote NO, except this past August.

Well now Bob I must take issue with that. I remember when fleet got the cockpit window cleaning job, and the de-icing job as well. The union locals were run by FSCs back then - of course there was no fight. I remember at one union meeting they were kicking around the idea of a name change for their workgroup. They had taken so many jobs from A/C maint that they were no longer just baggage handlers, but now ramp engineers or half dozen other creative titles they tossed around at that meeting.. Yeah they were pretty in you face about it as well.

Now on to the issue of their pay. AA FSCs pay has almost always been the top pay in the industry - at the very least top 3. On the other hand, AA AMT pay vs the industry - somewhere in the middle. Been that way for a long time.

The jury is still out on Sam at the five one four. Word is "don't hold your breath" for him to be any help for AMTs.

 

[paul1]

word is sam from local 514 doesn't have a say in our contract (for maintenance). The v.p. or someone else is representing 514 in negotiations. can anyone comfirm?

What was the NMB's take on yesterdays presentation, anyone

 

[AANOTOK]

Now on to the issue of their pay. AA FSCs pay has almost always been the top pay in the industry - at the very least top 3.

Dang V, that sounds like a line Jeff Bru.........Oh never mind.

V, not sure how long you have been with AA, but I have been with them going on 29 years now as a "FSC" at DFW and
I know exactly how some of you guys feel about clerks. A few years back it was even brought to a head and feelings linger.
As for you, you state one thing but your comments say another. And to be honest, most of us clerks don't really care how you feel,
we just want the best contract that we can possibly get, at no ones expense other than AA's.

No V, I'm not reading too much into what you say, from your opening remarks of "FSC's riding coat tails" to "in your face"
doesn't take much reading. I'm not going to get into a back and forth debate with you V, you have your legitimate gripes and concerns as we all do. But how about making arguments to the company and/or union without throwing Fleet under the bus!

Good Luck V

 

[Frank Szabo]

Dang V, that sounds like a line Jeff Bru.........Oh never mind.

V, not sure how long you have been with AA, but I have been with them going on 29 years now as a "FSC" at DFW and
I know exactly how some of you guys feel about clerks. A few years back it was even brought to a head and feelings linger.
As for you, you state one thing but your comments say another. And to be honest, most of us clerks don't really care how you feel,
we just want the best contract that we can possibly get, at no ones expense other than AA's.

No V, I'm not reading too much into what you say, from your opening remarks of "FSC's riding coat tails" to "in your face"
doesn't take much reading.

Bottom line V, how about making arguments to the company and/or union without throwing Fleet under the bus!

I agree, AANOTOK.

This is an excellent illustration/example of why we are collectively in our present fix - the "better than thou" syndrome.

I could easily sit here and say "I made the parts" or "I made the tooling that built the parts you're pounding rivets into", but I don't believe that attitude advances any of us one iota - quite the contrary, it divides us. Egos play into the company's plans to divide and conquer and so far, it's worked pretty damned good for the company and its pet union - we are losing the war partly because of this nonsense, for those not keeping up with current events.

If the "I'm better than you because ..." game is what one wants to play, there are many salaried positions within the company that will afford one that exact opportunity.

 

[Vortilon]

Dang V, that sounds like a line Jeff Bru.........Oh never mind.

V, not sure how long you have been with AA, but I have been with them going on 29 years now as a "FSC" at DFW and
I know exactly how some of you guys feel about clerks. A few years back it was even brought to a head and feelings linger.
As for you, you state one thing but your comments say another. And to be honest, most of us clerks don't really care how you feel,
we just want the best contract that we can possibly get, at no ones expense other than AA's.

No V, I'm not reading too much into what you say, from your opening remarks of "FSC's riding coat tails" to "in your face"
doesn't take much reading. I'm not going to get into a back and forth debate with you V, you have your legitimate gripes and concerns as we all do. But how about making arguments to the company and/or union without throwing Fleet under the bus!

Good Luck V


I agree

Good luck to you as well.

 

[Duke787]

The TWU doing this makes ME want to vote for AMP..........

 

[Bob Owens]

As Mechanics we have to accept the fact that mechanics voted to put us in the position we are in, not FSCs. Going after FSCs will not change that. It makes as much sense as the guy who has a bad day at work so he goes home and beats his wife and kids.

 

[DallasConehead]

I heard in the rumor mill yesterday, that FSCs on the upgrade list are being upgraded to AMTs for LAX and EWR? With zero experience? If true, this should be interesting.

 

[Rogallo]

As Mechanics we have to accept the fact that mechanics voted to put us in the position we are in, not FSCs. Going after FSCs will not change that. It makes as much sense as the guy who has a bad day at work so he goes home and beats his wife and kids.

Spot on Bob. The only ones to blame are the mechanics. They have voted in every concessionary POS contract that's come along.

 

[eolesen]

I heard in the rumor mill yesterday, that FSCs on the upgrade list are being upgraded to AMTs for LAX and EWR? With zero experience? If true, this should be interesting.

If they're licensed, then they're licensed... Maybe they put themselves thru school, the post 9/11 downturn hit, and they chose not to sacrifice feeding their family while working at slave wages on Cessna's for a FBO... or maybe they were AMT's elsewhere, and the FSC job was the best they could get. But to get the license, I'm sure there was some degree of hands-on required, no? And AA has fam training, no?

Rumors are great, but what's the backstory?