local 514 video

[Hopeful]

The Tulsa membership is like a herd of Buffalo be lead to the cliff, will they voluntarily jump off the cliff by voting yes, not realizing thats not the safe way until its too late or vote no and stop and face what they believe is threatening them?

I hope I am wrong, but the "jobs" theme seems to be winning the argument in TUL and most likely at those stations with the junior most people. As unclear and ambiguous as the language is, I venture to say any jobs saved or alleged to be saved will be short lived.

I guess we will all have to wait until Tuesday to see the results.

But one thing's for sure, Bob....If they choose to jump of the cliff, they will no doubt blame you for telling them to do it!

 

[TWU informer]

Got the video downloaded and saved for future use.

I apologize to all out there. These two clowns have embarrased the Local 514 Membership.

One is an elected and scared leader, and the other is an appointed organizer than sucks unpaid union buisness from us instead of working his jobs. He has no skill, he was hired only because his father was a well respected A&P Mechanic and Inspector when he retired.

Our Local President from Fleet Service, apparently does not want anything to do with taking a public stand on his position.

Nearly half of the E-board of Local 514 stands to lose their jobs or pay and they are simple running scared.
This must be why AA targeted Tulsa and why Local 514 refuses to take a position on this debate.

They must know this is going to be a NO VOTE and the video demonstrates they are now rushing to grasp at the final straw.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

I understand there is a 20 page document circulating in Tulsa against our Local 562 President Bob Owens

I invite who ever wrote it to come to New York and explain it to the membership here? Come one/ come all we would enjoy your company.

Why only in Tulsa and more importantly where is the circulating documents against the company against their lies and half truths?

Our union officials attack their own for faulting the company and pointing out how bad this proposal will be for everyone now and in the future.

It is not what they are telling you, its what they are not telling you that should scare you and make you ask why no one else is raising the issues?

Our Union leaders have a duty to fully inform their members of all parts of the proposal and their intent now and in the future. Not like John Hewitt and only point out what they want. That is an injustice to their local and their members. Tell your members everything in the proposal and then they can make an infomed decision.

so go ahead and citicize Bob Owens at least he gives you the real intent of this career changing proposal and our future.

 

[Bob Owens]

But one thing's for sure, Bob....If they choose to jump of the cliff, they will no doubt blame you for telling them to do it!

I'm sure some will try, but all the evidence will point to the contrary.

I'm a little more optimistic. If they really just sit back and look at whats being eliminated I cant see too many voting yes. Sure some older guys will vote Yes like in 1995 but remember that this time there is no retiree medical so we wont have may 55 to 60 guys voting for it this time like in 1995. Some of the younger guys may hope that if enough senior guys take the buyout their job would be saved, but then again some will realize that in six years they wont want to be here and that AA would help drag down the rest of the industrys wages. All the guys in the middle have zero reason to vote Yes because the elimination of System protection combined with the elimination of the ASM cap puts all but the most senior guys at risk. Junior guys should be informed of this as well. Six years is plenty of time to change over the domestic flying to Eagle.

So figure out of the bases you have pretty much all of AFW a No vote, and probaly half of Tulsa a No vote, So we have Title II and the line. Title II is seeing a lot of job cuts, so that will generate a lot of No votes, figure around 50%, So now its up to the line, aside from the IGMs who will vote yes and hope to retire you have a group that if they vote YES will be agreeing to a six year deal where they would top out in 2018 at a wage that less than the next lowest ratified deal(UAL) is now. Even most of the most Junior workers would be against that because they have nothing to look forward to, they wont be able to live off it either. I think the line NO vote out of stations such as MIA, ORD and LAX will be much higher this time around. We shall see.

 

[TWU informer]

I understand there is a 20 page document circulating in Tulsa against our Local 562 President Bob Owens

Not saying this is does not exist, but I have not seen it or even heard about it until now.

The VOTE is not about Bob Owens, it is about the company offer to kill of future.

When I complained about the T/A video causing the NO VOTE in 2010, everyone said the video did not matter and swayed nobody.

Now we have a battle of the videos and attacks on Local Presidents that make videos????
Make you think.....huh?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

TWU Informer:

I agree it makes you think

How dare anyone explain the negatives about this LBO when the TWU only promotes one thing.

 

[TWU informer]

TWU Informer:

I agree it makes you think

How dare anyone explain the negatives about this LBO when the TWU only promotes one thing.

Actually I believe this will be voted down and the TWU has now made AMFA supporters out of many Local 514 members.
Enough to file cards again I believe. They always were AMFA's best organizers.

Congrats to Hewitt and Mullings, we appreciate the help.

 

[Bob Owens]

Not saying this is does not exist, but I have not seen it or even heard about it until now.

Oh it exists, I have a copy of it. Have pictures of cases of them in one of the Union Offices as well. Apparently they have thousands of copies.

Its an unsigned letter that accuses me of inconsistancies. What they did was, such as in the very first example, take a statement they claim I wrote (not denying it, I didnt bother to verify) back in 2007 when AA was asking for pension relief so they could put less money in the pension and still claim it was "fully funded" . They pulled out one sentence where they claim I wrote "The pension threat is a scam" and left out the rest of the 5 year old discussion or what it was about. I believe I also wrote back then if we allow them to defer payments to a later date that the liability would increase and make it more likely that down the road the company would seek to terminate the pensions or use the increased liability as leverage against pay raises. But they left that part out, and then compared that statement to a post a year later where they claim I wrote "The airlines that went through BK switched to 401K matches, so they may not be getting promised as much but since the money is there they will likely be getting what they were promised". Out of that they came up with this;

"In 2007, he said losing the pension was a scam and now he concedes that if you may lose the pension in BK, but you at least get a 401(k) match,. So is losing the pension or a scam?

Two different convesations a year apart about two different things. One was about the government allowing AA to legally underfund our pensions,(while claiming they were fully funded), and I did discuss the danger of them building up a huge liability this way, while enjoying the real time savings from the things we gave up such as Holidays, Vacations and sick time to pay for it, and them using that against us later, which they have. The other was a comparision between a DB and DC plan that our peers who went BK ended up with.

I'm not going through the rest of the 21 pages but that was the first one there, the rest is the same.

If I were a 514 member I would object to the Local using resources to put stuff like this out. I would be quite embarrassed. Poorly edited, no name, poor easy to dismiss accusations with grade school grammar and logic. One would think with millions in the Treasury they could do better than that.

If the leadership of 514 wants to mount an attack upon me fine, its not the first time (in 2003 they took out an ad in a New York Labor paper -The Chief-calling Chuck Schalk and I "the enemies of labor", but at least that was signed and well edited), this is the political arena which I chose to step into, if my skin isnt thick enough I should step down, but for a Local that size, with those resources to put out something like this anonomously is really pathetic. "Man up" and put your name and Local header on it at least!!!

 

[Birdman]

Not saying this is does not exist, but I have not seen it or even heard about it until now.

There were several TWU minions passing out 2 handouts in hangar 1 late Friday. I amagine the whole base will be blanketed by Monday morning. There is a strange lack of comments from teAAm overspeed, HSS, and CIO on this video.

 

[olderguyAMT]

I understand there is a 20 page document circulating in Tulsa against our Local 562 President Bob Owens

I invite who ever wrote it to come to New York and explain it to the membership here? Come one/ come all we would enjoy your company.

Why only in Tulsa and more importantly where is the circulating documents against the company against their lies and half truths?

Our union officials attack their own for faulting the company and pointing out how bad this proposal will be for everyone now and in the future.

It is not what they are telling you, its what they are not telling you that should scare you and make you ask why no one else is raising the issues?

Our Union leaders have a duty to fully inform their members of all parts of the proposal and their intent now and in the future. Not like John Hewitt and only point out what they want. That is an injustice to their local and their members. Tell your members everything in the proposal and then they can make an infomed decision.

so go ahead and citicize Bob Owens at least he gives you the real intent of this career changing proposal and our future.

These clowns just gave AMFA organizers a big boost. Either way the voting goes, AMFA has a huge advantage now, thanks to our boys at 514 promoting the company view, which involves a conspiracy to divide, conquer, and defeat the union. Now we have the union attacking itself due to lack of leadership. The co. hates it when we take a stand.

Will the TWU be defeated?

 

[Buster CRC]

I understand there is a 20 page document circulating in Tulsa against our Local 562 President Bob Owens

I invite who ever wrote it to come to New York and explain it to the membership here? Come one/ come all we would enjoy your company.

Why only in Tulsa and more importantly where is the circulating documents against the company against their lies and half truths?

Our union officials attack their own for faulting the company and pointing out how bad this proposal will be for everyone now and in the future.

It is not what they are telling you, its what they are not telling you that should scare you and make you ask why no one else is raising the issues?

Our Union leaders have a duty to fully inform their members of all parts of the proposal and their intent now and in the future. Not like John Hewitt and only point out what they want. That is an injustice to their local and their members. Tell your members everything in the proposal and then they can make an infomed decision.

so go ahead and citicize Bob Owens at least he gives you the real intent of this career changing proposal and our future.

I have seen this, it was brought to me by a guy who picked it up at the Local 514 Union Hall. It is pitiful how these local "Union Leaders" are acting. It is embarrasing every time I see them on T.V. and now this YouTube is the Ultimate Low for them.

 

[TWU informer]

I have seen this, it was brought to me by a guy who picked it up at the Local 514 Union Hall. It is pitiful how these local "Union Leaders" are acting. It is embarrasing every time I see them on T.V. and now this YouTube is the Ultimate Low for them.

You must have not see the trailer with the coffin on it that they brought to downtown tulsa's brady theater during an AMFA Informational meeting.

This still stands as the Ultimate Low in my opinion.
Be hard to top that day of ingorance and fear.

Monday Evening, I will log into ballotpoint and VOTE NO again to make sure.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Even though it's rather late in the sales game, it would be interesting the see the seniorty dates of all of our darlings at the 514 hall and their minions such as HSS - it would give us a good idea of the "why" factor re: this sales pitch.

 

[Frank Szabo]

You must have not see the trailer with the coffin on it that they brought to downtown tulsa's brady theater during an AMFA Informational meeting.

This still stands as the Ultimate Low in my opinion.
Be hard to top that day of ingorance and fear.

Monday Evening, I will log into ballotpoint and VOTE NO again to make sure.

Even though I was not for AMFA (or any other so-called union at the time), I thought then and still think now this "coffin strategy" by the twu should have dealt with as a threat but evidently HR picked and chose who it wanted to shaft back then (as they do now) with the twu and its zealots off limits, it being a de facto subsidiary of AA/AMR.

If AMR can't survive without its Brownshirts controlling the rank and file through "approved" fear tactics, perhaps the company does need to be tossed on the heap along with Eastern and the other failures.

No, Mr.Informer - the ultimate low is to continue referring to one's employees as "valuable" while doing everything possible to treat them otherwise with the assistance and approval of the "representation" said employees must pay for or be terminated from their job - that's the ultimate in "low".

 

[olderguyAMT]

I have seen this, it was brought to me by a guy who picked it up at the Local 514 Union Hall. It is pitiful how these local "Union Leaders" are acting. It is embarrasing every time I see them on T.V. and now this YouTube is the Ultimate Low for them.

Interesting that we see this bias from the union hall, when at the 514 meeting at the Spirit Bank Event Center in Bixby, Cirri told us that he was there to state the unbiased facts to us, so we could decide for ourselves. Then he scolded one member for saying" Vote NO" in the Q and A session. But now, 514 is promoting their biased argument. Kind of like saying, Hey brother you are out or order, or Shut Your Pie Hole, Cave-man,aka Steve Louis, who lost his bid in the subsequent election. Is it honorable for a leader to use the bully pulpit in that way, when hearing a valid opinion from a member in a union meeting?
What he really meant to say was:
Sit down and shut up, your opinion doesn't matter. Feelings of deja vue return once again !!!!!!!
The Local Pres. is siding with the Intl. and the Co.

Another reason to Vote NO.