Loa 83

[Furloughedagain]

D328Pilot said, "Really guys...is it just a pay thing or is a size thing? "

It is a jobs thing.

US Airways furloughed 1800 pilots.

US Airways then purchased 4.4 billion dollars worth of jet aircraft.

What action did you EXPECT the US Airways MEC to take???

Answer: Try to secure as much of the new flying as they possibly could for US Airways employees -- furloughed or otherwise.

If there were a chance in hell of getting management to agree to put those airplanes on the mainline, I am certain the MEC (with the exception of the usual cast of malcontents) would have jumped at the opportunity.

It is a JOBS thing.

 

[d328pilot]

We went from about 280 pilots to 375. How many of those are mainline? tell me why i am about 170ish out of almost 400 and i am still an FO.....oh...cause i am express and not good enough. Your jobs are not any more important that mine.

 

[DorkDriver]

It not about jobs. Its all ego. Sharing ALL the aircraft 50/50 provides MORE jobs to both sides. By scoping the WO'd pilots out of the CRJ 700s all you have done is make a difficult work environment even that more troublesome to deal with. I guess us little prop drivers should be happy with the CRJ 200s? You let MESA have 50/50, there's no reason to treat the WO'd any different.

 

[d328pilot]

our negociating committee will have everything finished to get 70 seaters on the property by early next year.. All we are waiting on is the mainline MEC drop the 100% requirement. Our MEC is solid...50/50 or nothing.

 

[Furloughedagain]

You have to draw the line somewhere. It was only six months ago that you were whining that you didn't have 50 seat jets. Now you're whining that you don't have 70 seat jets. If the MEC allows you to have 70 seat jets then in 6 months you'll be whining again.

"Sharing ALL the aircraft 50/50 provides MORE jobs to both sides. The US Airways MEC should drop the limitation and allow Airbus 320s to be flown at the WO 50/50. Your job is not any more important than mine. Blah blah blah"

In fact your job is MORE important than mine. You're still employed providing revenue for US Airways.

This is not about ego. Nothing destroys ego like losing the job you've waiting your entire life for, being unable to support your family, and being given the choice to go work at a J4J carrier where the employees hate you before you even set foot on the property. (sounds like a CRM/safety issue to me by the way...)

I personally am glad that they drew the line at 70 seaters. I WISH they had drawn the line at 70 seaters at Mesa as well -- I cant imagine why they didnt.

This discussion is academic. As a furloughed ALPA non-person I have no more say in the actions of the disfunctional US Airways MEC than you do. Sadly, Chip has more say than I do -- he still has a vote.

 

[d328pilot]

No one forced you to give up your previous job to go to mainline. Why our our pilots punished for your choices? No one wants A320's here. No one is whining about the 70 seaters. What we are mad about is the fact that your MEC seems to think that they have the right to control everything that happens here. First, it was you guys come here with super seniority. Then FOs have to make Capt. pay. Now he has to make the highest FO pay rate. Tell me why he should make more than me? He doesnt do the job any better or safer than I do. The whining comes from us being screwed by your MEC time after time. The reason people dont like the J4J guys is because some of them come here thinking they are better than we are...Can you believe that one guy actually said in class that we are taking his job? Thats why we dont like them. It is an ego thing...Ego is why our airline is in the position that it is today.

 

[N628AU]

I personally am glad that they drew the line at 70 seaters. I WISH they had drawn the line at 70 seaters at Mesa as well -- I cant imagine why they didnt.

Did I miss something. I think Mesa is capped at 70 seats as well. I believe the only thing the MEC dropped was the issue with Mesa flying a larger than 70 jet for someone else, which I always thought was stupid anyway. We have enough issues, why get into someone else's fight?

 

[d328pilot]

What he is talking about is that Mesa is allowed to operated the 70 seaters at a 50/50 ratios....but the WOs must be at 100%

 

[BoeingBoy]

Hi folks,

I've been on a 4-day trip so am catching up on everything.

I think I said before (if I didn't I should have) that I'm not an expert on the J4J program. I'm too close to retirement to even try starting somewhere else and if it ever gets to the point where it may apply to me mainline is history anyway.

Having said that, here's the way I read the scope language. (While admitting that I could be wrong.

Under (A) up to 30 "large" RJ's can go to Mesa or W/O under J4J.

Under (B) up to 25 more "large" RJ's can go to W/O as long as they are placed into service no later than 12/31/2004.

Under © up to 25 CRJ-700's can go to W/O under J4J.

The way I read it, that's up to 55 "large" RJ's at either W/O or affiliate, and 25 at W/O only. All subject to J4J.

Is there something I'm missing or is there something in the J4J language I need to look at? To tell you the truth, there is a lot in these concession agreements that I'm not sure the MEC had much time to think thru.

As I've said before (in some thread), I wish that there were no longer any W/O. It it had been up to me everything would have been integrated 8-10 years ago under one contract. And there would be no "affiliate" Express operation - it would all be done in-house.

Jim

 

[ItsJustAJob]

The thing that Dork is missing is that ALL flying done by an aircraft that is painted in US livery belongs to mainline pilots. It's the mainline scope clause that allows the regionals to exist. Mainline existed first and the regionals came along only after the mainline pilots agreed to "sublet" the flying. Admittingly, this happened decades ago, yet still applies.

If you don't believe me, ask Don Butkovic, this was his explaination of the whole thing. (Take that for what it's worth).

 

[d328pilot]

fine...then take all of the flying and run your A319 at 20% load factor and see how long u last...do you REALLY think you have the loads to support mainline aircraft at every station?

The fact that you are missing is that neither Mainline or WO owns any flying.. the company does. But really, thank you for allowing me to exist.

I think in our next contract we should try get a scope clause to restrict mainline flying....(sarcasm)