Letter to ALPA MEC Chairman Jack Stephan

[Junebug172]

There is no high-fiving go on over here.

The only reason you see any sort of smile over here is due to relief. We were given a very fair and balanced decision by Nicolau instead of the DOH the east was looking for.

But many of us did lose some sort of relative position.

No windfalls here at all. A windfall for us would have be a complete stapling of your list to the bottom of ours. That didn't happen.

Move on.

 

[capn scud]

There is no high-fiving go on over here.

I'm sure you're not happy about your 2 year seniority knocking an 18 year f/o down a few hundred numbers.
You should try reading what you type idiot!

The only reason you see any sort of smile over here is due to relief. We were given a very fair and balanced decision by Nicolau instead of the DOH the east was looking for.

RELIEF??? YGTBSM! Fair and balanced? What have you been there, like 3 years? Get a life dude, if you think this is fair, you shouldn't be operating heavy equipment!
Get yourself checked quickly and put down the crack pipe!

But many of us did lose some sort of relative position.

BS! Ignorance is bliss, eh sport?

No windfalls here at all. A windfall for us would have be a complete stapling of your list to the bottom of ours. That didn't happen.

Move on.

Much as you would like to think you are the rescuers, you're as disillusioned as your posting! Go and buy yourself a clue and check back with us!

 

[exB717Flyer]

I'm sure you're not happy about your 2 year seniority knocking an 18 year f/o down a few hundred numbers.

I realize nothing I say will assuage the anger of the Easties but I have to point something out: The USAir junior captain and FO as of the close of the merger were placed at the same seniority as the junior AWA ones. That's what relative seniority means. A DOH integration would've put junior USAir FOs far senior to AWA captains yet you argue that's "fair". There's a reason this went to abitration and Nicolau explained his decision.

 

[luv2fly]

I realize nothing I say will assuage the anger of the Easties but I have to point something out: The USAir junior captain and FO as of the close of the merger were placed at the same seniority as the junior AWA ones. That's what relative seniority means. A DOH integration would've put junior USAir FOs far senior to AWA captains yet you argue that's "fair". There's a reason this went to abitration and Nicolau explained his decision.

Were the U pilots honestly looking for DOH? While the arbitrators decisions appears to be skewed, what were all those DOH stickers about on those flight kits?

 

[USA320Pilot]

Junebug,

My relative seniority went up with the Nicolau award, my position improved, and my ability to fly international widebody's improved (if I desire) with the award, but I am not in favor of having the Nicolau award implemented. Moreover, I am in favor of doing whatever is necessary to stop the integration, until there is a resoanable solution.

The list has placed a 3-month tenure AWA pilot ahead of a 19-year US Airways pilot at the day of the merger and the 19-year copilot would have very little chance of upgrading to Captain. Moreover, a 15-year US Airways pilot who was furloughed was stapled to the bottom of the seniority list.

How can that be fair and why should move on?

We will not move on and either something changes that is a satisfactory option to the East pilots or the AWA pilots better get used to flying out of PHX/LAS, prepare for and enter into Section VI negotiations, and have years and years of stagnation.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

and have years and years of stagnation.

Regards,

USA320Pilot[/font]

Hmmmm- I wonder if the odds are the same as predicted for DL's fragmentation if those pilots didn't accept the US/DL merger......

Jim

 

[luvn737s]

What is interesting is that the East pilot group has the legal power to force this on the West pilot group.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Nope.

Why not salvage credibility and relevance at the same time and tell guys the truth instead of clicking them damn ruby slippers over and over.

No one should be giving any would-be anarchists an audience or the appearance of credence.

 

[Junebug172]

...15-year US Airways pilot who was furloughed was stapled to the bottom of the seniority list.

So what do you propose. Bring the guy off furlough and put a once active AWA pilot in his place?

Or would you just have that furloughed guy jump Odell when a vacancy opens so that Odell remains an FO for his entire career?

I'm sure you're not happy about your 2 year seniority knocking an 18 year f/o down a few hundred numbers.
You should try reading what you type idiot!
RELIEF??? YGTBSM! Fair and balanced? What have you been there, like 3 years? Get a life dude, if you think this is fair, you shouldn't be operating heavy equipment!
Get yourself checked quickly and put down the crack pipe!
BS! Ignorance is bliss, eh sport?
Much as you would like to think you are the rescuers, you're as disillusioned as your posting! Go and buy yourself a clue and check back with us!

Either way, thats just as, if not more, unfair.

And you just proved that this is a fair decision. I lost 4% and will not see and upgrade for another few years.

Easy there Sponge Bob.

Deep breaths. I know the truth is hard to stomach on your end, but it will eventually set you free.

Relax big guy and let me know when you rejoin reality.

 

[prechilill]

Junebug,

My relative seniority went up with the Nicolau award, my position improved, and my ability to fly international widebody's improved

How can that be fair and why should move on?



We will not move on...



USA320Pilot

Of course you won't move on, even after the integration takes place because you are at the end of your career. I believe "tragic" is an appropriate descriptor of your career (as well as many at USAir) and for that I am truly sorry. It has been very insightful to see the deep bitterness and resentment flow out of you guys. If the Nicolau award didn't bring it out something else would have, like the next contract negotiations where all of you old guys would demand the younger guys sacrifice more for your retirements (or something to that effect). I have flown long enough and have fielded enough experience to recognize the "it's all about me" feelings, and Larry, reading a few of your statements above puts you in that camp. Hopefully, one day, you will understand what I am saying.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Of course you won't move on, even after the integration takes place because you are at the end of your career. I believe "tragic" is an appropriate descriptor of your career (as well as many at USAir) and for that I am truly sorry. It has been very insightful to see the deep bitterness and resentment flow out of you guys. If the Nicolau award didn't bring it out something else would have, like the next contract negotiations where all of you old guys would demand the younger guys sacrifice more for your retirements (or something to that effect). I have flown long enough and have fielded enough experience to recognize the "it's all about me" feelings, and Larry, reading a few of your statements above puts you in that camp. Hopefully, one day, you will understand what I am saying.

No I believe USA320Pilot has a lot more time ahead of him in the air.

I don't care how the hell you whip it up -- you simply can't put a new hire in front of someone that has 14 years hard-time at the airline. Nobody expected DOH here, but they certainly expected credit for the active time served at the company. The award is complete crap and it will never, ever be used. Not if you want this airline to keep flying anyway.

Later,
Eye

 

[aquagreen73s]

Of course you won't move on, even after the integration takes place because you are at the end of your career. I believe "tragic" is an appropriate descriptor of your career (as well as many at USAir) and for that I am truly sorry. It has been very insightful to see the deep bitterness and resentment flow out of you guys. If the Nicolau award didn't bring it out something else would have, like the next contract negotiations where all of you old guys would demand the younger guys sacrifice more for your retirements (or something to that effect). I have flown long enough and have fielded enough experience to recognize the "it's all about me" feelings, and Larry, reading a few of your statements above puts you in that camp. Hopefully, one day, you will understand what I am saying.

Well said. The last week has been very revealing. You never actually know who you marry until...

Bottom line is that they have no legal options whatsoever. Their only recourse is to somehow attempt to strong arm ALPA national. But what they don't realize, like they didn't with AWA, UAL, and Nicolau, is that those others are not like them. Those others are men, women, and organizations with self-respect and respect for others. And just as their dealings with AWA, UAL and Nicolau were total and utter failures, so too will their campaign against ALPA national be a complete failure.

 

[prechilill]

Well said. The last week has been very revealing. You never actually know who you marry until...

Bottom line is that they have no legal options whatsoever. Their only recourse is to somehow attempt to strong arm ALPA national. But what they don't realize, like they didn't with AWA, UAL, and Nicolau, is that those others are not like them. Those others are men, women, and organizations with self-respect and respect for others.

Folk tales are made of happy endings, it is human nature to enjoy them, even when the endings are usually predictable. Life isn't a folk tale, unfortunately. The USAir pilots have undoubtedly had the worst major airline experience a pilot could have, save PanAm, Braniff or Eastern. All are tragic stories and USAir probably belongs to that select group. However, the other three pilot groups all had to start over- at least the USAir pilots can preserve what they have earned over the years. They are given a new lease and seem bitter about it.

Your mastery of the law is impressive, by the way.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I study it religiously. As well as brush and floss daily!

 

[ussnark]

I realize nothing I say will assuage the anger of the Easties but I have to point something out: The USAir junior captain and FO as of the close of the merger were placed at the same seniority as the junior AWA ones. That's what relative seniority means. A DOH integration would've put junior USAir FOs far senior to AWA captains yet you argue that's "fair". There's a reason this went to abitration and Nicolau explained his decision.

No, that is not what "relative seniority" means.

A DOH seniority integration would have protected every class on the property with something called "conditions and restrictions", a fence, if you will. I could care less that the fence went to the moon.

What if US now buys a startup commuter? Using the same methodology, would you be happy with their soon to be extraordinary seniority, forcing you back to the right seat?

A travesty occurred here, and if you wish to continue flying with a paycheck from US, you really need to act now. This is no threat, the parallels with Eastern are too obvious to me.

 

[ussnark]

Nope.

Why not salvage credibility and relevance at the same time and tell guys the truth instead of clicking them damn ruby slippers over and over.

No one should be giving any would-be anarchists an audience or the appearance of credence.

You guys keep voting in McCain.

Talk about "ruby slippers".

Wow, do you guys just flit from moment to moment or do you just ignore reality on a regular basis?