USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
Jack,
I known you’re very busy since the Seniority List Arbitration Opinion & Award was released and now with the MEC in special session dealing with this tragic event. I am encouraged by the reports I am hearing from the meeting, but I wanted to through out some thoughts, which I understand you’re currently discussing along with some other good options.
Before I do that I wanted to mention a couple of comments from other pilots discussing the current situation. Earlier today ALPA Council 138 First Officer Representative Don Baier wrote in an email to the DCA-based pilots, “First of all, our pilots are hurting. We are all in shock trying to deal with this and our first concern is for the health, safety and well being of the pilots on this property. From taking phone calls and emails to providing information on the Employee Assistance Program and assistance through the ALPA Aeromedical Office and the Critical Incident Response Program, the last 48 hours have been extremely hectic. As we said in our update, the list is devastating, with vast and widespread inequities. It’s ridiculous. This meeting was called to get answers on how this happened and what we can do about it. We intend to fight this award and its integration with, as you say “every resource.†This meeting was called to begin that process. Beyond that we also need to find additional enhancements for our pilots BEYOND the list whatever happens.â€
In another email DCA-based pilot and ALPA Scheduling Committee member Jed Thomas wrote earlier today, "I continue to be alarmed at this seniority award."
I spoke with a fellow DCA pilot this morning. As he has tried to get accurate information, I looked up the seniority list for him. He has only a handful of AWA pilots junior to him on the list. This DCA pilot, just 2 months from his 19th anniversary with the company, has been placed junior to an AWA pilot who had 3 months with the company on the date of the merger announcement. An adjacent AWA pilot was only 9 years old when this DCA pilot was hired.
Lets take the case of furloughed pilot USAirways pilot F/O Nagai, employee number who was hired at US Airways on June 21, 1989. He was hired at AWA, employee number P2838 on July 21, 2003. At the time of the merger announcement, he had less than 2 years of active service with AWA, but probably 13-14 years of service with US Airways.
In the award, his service at AWA, less than 2 years, held more weight than all of his years of service at US Airways.
F/O Nagai is on the list twice. Where his active service at US Airways gets him, and where his less than 2 years at AWA gets him. Those numbers?
AWA service 4051 next to a US Airways hire date of June 1, 1987 (senior to F/O Davison employee number 21569)
US Airways service 5058, a difference of over 1000 numbers.
Not to take anything away from F/O Nagai and his efforts to survive after being furloughed, but I think this is just another example of the inequities of this award," Jed concluded.
In previous emails to our group, I have written at length on the benefits, both from a seniority and economic view, of not obtaining a new joint contract with the company and the America West pilots to prevent inequities like the ones described by Jed.
However, there is another option that is surfaced, which I understand is being discussed by the US Airways MEC meeting and that is to decertify and “kick†ALPA off of the property. This action is profound and has a number of implications for ALPA International, the America West pilots, US Airways, and the other US Airways represented employee groups, and is one I will wholeheatedly support and I encourage you to pursue with vigor.
If the US Airways pilots elect to decertify ALPA from the property and we did not reach a joint combined contract with the America West pilots and the company, senior management could not implement George Nicolau’s seniority list and the ALPA constitution and by-laws and policy manual would no longer be controlling. Thus, the requirement for an Arbitrators decision being binding may no longer exist.
Then US Airways ALPA would have the legal right to solicit another outside union or form an inside union to represent the interests of the US Airways pilots. With a union separate from ALPA then the company, US Airways and America West pilots would need to petition the NMB to order a representational election to see what union would represent the East and West pilots.
Here is the interesting part. The US Airways pilots are a larger group than the America West pilots and would have effective control over what union could represent the combined group pilots, and equally important the “East†pilots could kick ALPA off of the America West property too.
The ramifications of this action are enormous and profound, which could include:
ALPA International would lose over 6,400 members and this could cause other disgruntled pilot groups to leave ALPA as well, causing a major loss of ALPA dues revenue, and unwinding of the union.
If the US Airways pilots leave ALPA and force the America West pilots to leave ALPA too, then the US Airways pilots could dictate what union represents the America West pilots. For example, one option would be the Teamsters – Airline Division. For more information on this union click onto the two links below:
Click here for the ink.
Click here for the link.
Click here for the link.
Meanwhile, the new seniority list could not be implemented during this process. Moreover, the US Airways pilots would maintain all widebody flying, the vast majority of attrition based career expectation advancement and pay raises, the America West pilots would have significant stagnation, the company could not combine operations, and without an operational/labor integration, the company would not have much motivation to reach new agreements with the other labor groups that could boost employee pay and benefits.
Also noteworthy, during the process US Airways pilots would have improved pay, benefits, and quality of life because the East attrition is about a 4:1 ratio over the West pilots.
Another interesting development would be that the America West pilots and the company would be required by federal law to enter into Section VI negotiations, which could lead to direct negotiations, mediation, a “30-day†cooling off period, and then a strike. And, during this process there would be no new joint contract between the company and the East and West pilots until the representational and seniority integration was resolved, which could take a very, very long time.
In the long run, I do not believe US Airways East pilots, the US Airways West pilots, or the company would like to see this option proceed and ALPA decertified on either property, but since you’re discussing this very real option today I wanted to prose an alternative
Thus, what can be done to prevent the decertification of ALPA? I believe a negotiated option could be for the US Airways East and West pilots; along with the company, to agree to place permanent fences around West and East Coast Crew bases. These fences would prevent a pre-merger US Airways pilot from bidding PHX or LAS and a former America West pilot from bidding BOS, CLT, DCA, LGA, PHL, or PIT. Each pilot group would maintain their pre-merger career expectation and DOH and the combined union and company could negotiate a new joint pilot working agreement, which would benefit the company, the East and West pilots, and the other labor groups.
In addition, there would have to be a number of conditions on the new seniority list and fences such as how would new flying to China, Japan, Israel would be split, how would positions for growth widebody aircraft such as the A340 be shared by each employee group (not replacement aircraft) or in the event of a furlough how would this pain be shared? Other areas would be how to handle shared EMB-190 flying or scope issues such as minimum fleet counts and block hours.
Regardless, the US Airways East pilots have options that will prevent the implementation of the new combined seniority list such as not reaching a new joint contract, pulling out of ALPA, and preventing the seniority list from being implemented cannot be stopped by US Airways’ “executive suite†or the former America West pilots. Furthermore, the decertification of ALPA could be executed by other airline labor unions in any future merger, which may prevent industry consolidation from occurring in the future.
Finally, thank you for your actions, which include from your chairman's message today, "I will keep you informed of the events taking place in light of the travesty handed to us in the Nicolau arbitration ruling. Two conference calls took place yesterday, the first one being a Pilot to Pilot conference call which produced feedback and ideas that are critical to our process moving forward. Next was a conference call with the MEC Officers, key committees and legal. The purpose of the call was to share information in preparation for today’s special MEC meeting involving developing strategy and setting priorities. When examining how to challenge the integration award, we are looking at all options at our disposal, nothing has been ruled out."
I have attached spreadsheet for other pilots to review, which shows a pilots seniority number at retirement pre-merger, post retirement position based on the Nicolau Opinion & Award, and the number of years of seniority lost by the East pilots, and as you know, a picture is worth more than a “thousand words.â€
Employee number removed
I known you’re very busy since the Seniority List Arbitration Opinion & Award was released and now with the MEC in special session dealing with this tragic event. I am encouraged by the reports I am hearing from the meeting, but I wanted to through out some thoughts, which I understand you’re currently discussing along with some other good options.
Before I do that I wanted to mention a couple of comments from other pilots discussing the current situation. Earlier today ALPA Council 138 First Officer Representative Don Baier wrote in an email to the DCA-based pilots, “First of all, our pilots are hurting. We are all in shock trying to deal with this and our first concern is for the health, safety and well being of the pilots on this property. From taking phone calls and emails to providing information on the Employee Assistance Program and assistance through the ALPA Aeromedical Office and the Critical Incident Response Program, the last 48 hours have been extremely hectic. As we said in our update, the list is devastating, with vast and widespread inequities. It’s ridiculous. This meeting was called to get answers on how this happened and what we can do about it. We intend to fight this award and its integration with, as you say “every resource.†This meeting was called to begin that process. Beyond that we also need to find additional enhancements for our pilots BEYOND the list whatever happens.â€
In another email DCA-based pilot and ALPA Scheduling Committee member Jed Thomas wrote earlier today, "I continue to be alarmed at this seniority award."
I spoke with a fellow DCA pilot this morning. As he has tried to get accurate information, I looked up the seniority list for him. He has only a handful of AWA pilots junior to him on the list. This DCA pilot, just 2 months from his 19th anniversary with the company, has been placed junior to an AWA pilot who had 3 months with the company on the date of the merger announcement. An adjacent AWA pilot was only 9 years old when this DCA pilot was hired.
Lets take the case of furloughed pilot USAirways pilot F/O Nagai, employee number who was hired at US Airways on June 21, 1989. He was hired at AWA, employee number P2838 on July 21, 2003. At the time of the merger announcement, he had less than 2 years of active service with AWA, but probably 13-14 years of service with US Airways.
In the award, his service at AWA, less than 2 years, held more weight than all of his years of service at US Airways.
F/O Nagai is on the list twice. Where his active service at US Airways gets him, and where his less than 2 years at AWA gets him. Those numbers?
AWA service 4051 next to a US Airways hire date of June 1, 1987 (senior to F/O Davison employee number 21569)
US Airways service 5058, a difference of over 1000 numbers.
Not to take anything away from F/O Nagai and his efforts to survive after being furloughed, but I think this is just another example of the inequities of this award," Jed concluded.
In previous emails to our group, I have written at length on the benefits, both from a seniority and economic view, of not obtaining a new joint contract with the company and the America West pilots to prevent inequities like the ones described by Jed.
However, there is another option that is surfaced, which I understand is being discussed by the US Airways MEC meeting and that is to decertify and “kick†ALPA off of the property. This action is profound and has a number of implications for ALPA International, the America West pilots, US Airways, and the other US Airways represented employee groups, and is one I will wholeheatedly support and I encourage you to pursue with vigor.
If the US Airways pilots elect to decertify ALPA from the property and we did not reach a joint combined contract with the America West pilots and the company, senior management could not implement George Nicolau’s seniority list and the ALPA constitution and by-laws and policy manual would no longer be controlling. Thus, the requirement for an Arbitrators decision being binding may no longer exist.
Then US Airways ALPA would have the legal right to solicit another outside union or form an inside union to represent the interests of the US Airways pilots. With a union separate from ALPA then the company, US Airways and America West pilots would need to petition the NMB to order a representational election to see what union would represent the East and West pilots.
Here is the interesting part. The US Airways pilots are a larger group than the America West pilots and would have effective control over what union could represent the combined group pilots, and equally important the “East†pilots could kick ALPA off of the America West property too.
The ramifications of this action are enormous and profound, which could include:
ALPA International would lose over 6,400 members and this could cause other disgruntled pilot groups to leave ALPA as well, causing a major loss of ALPA dues revenue, and unwinding of the union.
If the US Airways pilots leave ALPA and force the America West pilots to leave ALPA too, then the US Airways pilots could dictate what union represents the America West pilots. For example, one option would be the Teamsters – Airline Division. For more information on this union click onto the two links below:
Click here for the ink.
Click here for the link.
Click here for the link.
Meanwhile, the new seniority list could not be implemented during this process. Moreover, the US Airways pilots would maintain all widebody flying, the vast majority of attrition based career expectation advancement and pay raises, the America West pilots would have significant stagnation, the company could not combine operations, and without an operational/labor integration, the company would not have much motivation to reach new agreements with the other labor groups that could boost employee pay and benefits.
Also noteworthy, during the process US Airways pilots would have improved pay, benefits, and quality of life because the East attrition is about a 4:1 ratio over the West pilots.
Another interesting development would be that the America West pilots and the company would be required by federal law to enter into Section VI negotiations, which could lead to direct negotiations, mediation, a “30-day†cooling off period, and then a strike. And, during this process there would be no new joint contract between the company and the East and West pilots until the representational and seniority integration was resolved, which could take a very, very long time.
In the long run, I do not believe US Airways East pilots, the US Airways West pilots, or the company would like to see this option proceed and ALPA decertified on either property, but since you’re discussing this very real option today I wanted to prose an alternative
Thus, what can be done to prevent the decertification of ALPA? I believe a negotiated option could be for the US Airways East and West pilots; along with the company, to agree to place permanent fences around West and East Coast Crew bases. These fences would prevent a pre-merger US Airways pilot from bidding PHX or LAS and a former America West pilot from bidding BOS, CLT, DCA, LGA, PHL, or PIT. Each pilot group would maintain their pre-merger career expectation and DOH and the combined union and company could negotiate a new joint pilot working agreement, which would benefit the company, the East and West pilots, and the other labor groups.
In addition, there would have to be a number of conditions on the new seniority list and fences such as how would new flying to China, Japan, Israel would be split, how would positions for growth widebody aircraft such as the A340 be shared by each employee group (not replacement aircraft) or in the event of a furlough how would this pain be shared? Other areas would be how to handle shared EMB-190 flying or scope issues such as minimum fleet counts and block hours.
Regardless, the US Airways East pilots have options that will prevent the implementation of the new combined seniority list such as not reaching a new joint contract, pulling out of ALPA, and preventing the seniority list from being implemented cannot be stopped by US Airways’ “executive suite†or the former America West pilots. Furthermore, the decertification of ALPA could be executed by other airline labor unions in any future merger, which may prevent industry consolidation from occurring in the future.
Finally, thank you for your actions, which include from your chairman's message today, "I will keep you informed of the events taking place in light of the travesty handed to us in the Nicolau arbitration ruling. Two conference calls took place yesterday, the first one being a Pilot to Pilot conference call which produced feedback and ideas that are critical to our process moving forward. Next was a conference call with the MEC Officers, key committees and legal. The purpose of the call was to share information in preparation for today’s special MEC meeting involving developing strategy and setting priorities. When examining how to challenge the integration award, we are looking at all options at our disposal, nothing has been ruled out."
I have attached spreadsheet for other pilots to review, which shows a pilots seniority number at retirement pre-merger, post retirement position based on the Nicolau Opinion & Award, and the number of years of seniority lost by the East pilots, and as you know, a picture is worth more than a “thousand words.â€
Employee number removed
