Labor Unrest?

[DCT JVL]

Unrest in the air at United


Pilots want pay talks, `strike preparation committee' approved

By Julie Johnsson
Tribune staff reporter
Posted December 7 2006

United Airlines' pilots union said Wednesday that it is establishing a "strike preparation committee," a signal that labor unrest is building at the world's second-largest airline.

In a special session this week, union leaders for the Air Line Pilots Association unanimously voted to form the committee, typically used to coordinate activities during contentious contract talks, even though the present labor agreements for pilots and other union employees at United run through 2009.

Union leaders said they are ratcheting up their rhetoric in reaction to growing anger by many pilots over what they see as a disparity between management and employee pay.

Here is the rest of the article.

Not sure there is much room for the pilots here, but it is nice to see somebody calling attention to the ridiculous compensation packages that Tilton, McDonald, and the rest have received.

 

[The Gopher]

Ridiculous? Not really. UAL is a 16 BILLION dollar company that, for a time, was truly on its deathbed. The fact that we've had two profitable quarters is testament that things have drastically changed for the better (profitability-wise). Time will tell if this trend continues.

There are plenty of things that this company is doing wrong, but executive compensation is not out of line when looking at $15+ billion companies.

Frankly I am not as concerned about a few dozen senior managements' salaries than I am about the thousands of runaway pilots salaries after Contract 2000. Pilots' pay after that was staggering, and returning to that kind of pay rate would be fatal.

 

[casual rat]

I'm concerned that CEOs make 300 times what the typical worker's pay is. I'm also concerned that huge disparities of wealth give the wealthy the means to corrupt our system on their behalf. If you compare UA CEO pay to other companies' CEOs--you're turning a blind eye to the main problem--THEY MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY! ALL OF THEM! It's to the point of being criminal.

 

[DCT JVL]

My issue with executive compensation isn't so much with the amounts (everybody deserves what they can negotiate) but the example these packages set for the rest of the company. When you ask empoyees to take 30% paycuts and lose their pensions, enriching yourself at the same time is unseemly and it undermines any ability you might have had to lead your employees. The end result of all this is ALPA strike committees and a downward spiral right back to where we came from if we aren't careful. All I ask is that the excutives set an example. Then they could actually lead the whole company back to success, but of course, that would assume they are interested in the ultimate success of United Airlines.

 

[UALIADCS]

I remember a building fund drive where the theme was "Not equal giving, but equal sacrifice." It was a huge success, and everyone felt pride of ownership, no matter the amount of money. I have no problem with salaries, except when you ask one group to make huge sacrifices while another group gets large increases.

Having worked the summer of 2000, I hope there is no repeat. Our customers sacrificed for that summer in ways people will never know. I remember one woman lady trying to get home to her dying mother; but the flight had one of "those issues" and as the day progressed, you realized she wasn't going to make it in time. She would not be able to tell her mother "goodbye." Is any amount of money worth that?

There has to be a better answer. Perhaps it starts w/mutual respect.

 

[767jetz]

The issue is that the pilot's concessionary contract runs until '09. Tilton took a pay cut during the bankruptcy and claimed "shared sacrifice." But before his contract ran out he decided to give himself a huge raise when we emerged from bankruptcy.

So much for "shared sacrifice." I don't really have a problem with his salary, but if UA can afford to give him a raise before his contract is up, then UA can afford to start giving raises back to those who gave up the most.

 

[ualdriver]

Ridiculous? Not really. UAL is a 16 BILLION dollar company that, for a time, was truly on its deathbed. The fact that we've had two profitable quarters is testament that things have drastically changed for the better (profitability-wise). Time will tell if this trend continues.

Yeah, it is RIDICULOUS. Our 20B (twenty not sixteen) billion dollar company, after 3 years of bankruptcy and beating down its employees and calling for "shared sacrifice" is barely making money. Solution? Open up the contracts for our top executives EARLY so that they can give themselves huge raises and additional stock options. Sounds great to me. Way to unify the troops!

But they brought this company from its deathbed, right? Well, first of all, we ALL did that. Second of all, THEY WERE ALREADY COMPENSATED FOR THAT. Remember? A very small number of top executives of this company own a nice disproportionate chunk of UAL which they received when we exited bankruptcy. Apparently, that wasn't enough.

Further, who cares if they brought the company back from its deathbed? That their job, darn it! If a pilot brings back a crippled airliner to a safe landing and saves a couple of hundred lives, does he/she get a little "something extra" in his paycheck? Nope. If a flight attendant revives a heart attack victim in the cabin using her CPR skills and the defibrillator, does he/she get a bonus and some extra stock options? Nope. Yet our executives "save" our company and they get compensated "extra" not once, but twice. Don't worry. Nothing to be concerned about.

There are plenty of things that this company is doing wrong, but executive compensation is not out of line when looking at $15+ billion companies.

I used to think that too. But now my thinking is being swayed. Glenn owns the board of directors. They're his guys. It's a total conflict of interest, yet it happens at companies all over the U.S. Further, I think there are plenty of good guys out there who would be willing to do Glenn's job for a lot less than he earns, but they'll never be hired or considered for the position. It's OK to lay off 2000 talented pilots and replace them with RJ's being flown by extremely inexperienced, 500 hours pilots at Mesa, for example. It's OK. They probably won't do as good a job as our pilots can, but they'll do an ADEQUATE job. It's OK to lay off 100's of talented mechanics and replace them with Joe Blow FBO mechanics because the FBO guy will do an ADEQUATE job even though I know our laid off mechanics could do a better job. Yet we pay top dollar for our upper management who are doing an ADEQUATE job, at best. So many talented MBA's out there could do an ADEQUATE job too, running this company for much less than Glenn and the boys. We don't even think about hiring them. Why not? Because our foxes are watching their hen house. Do you think Glenn is going to look for someone willing to do his job more cheaply? Nope. And HIS Board won't, either.

Frankly I am not as concerned about a few dozen senior managements' salaries than I am about the thousands of runaway pilots salaries after Contract 2000. Pilots' pay after that was staggering, and returning to that kind of pay rate would be fatal.

I'd be very concerned about any group's salaries going up at this time. The argument that these management guys are a small group of people so it "doesn't matter" is ridiculous. The simulator technicians are a small group of employees. If they came to the company and said, "hey, let's open our contract early and give ourselves a pay raise because we're a small group of employees. Don't worry, the pay increase won't really matter to a 20B company because we're such a small group of people." Would that be OK? I doubt the other employee groups would be very happy with that. Yet it's OK for a small group of management guys to get yet another "bonus." Bull!!!!

 

[mmahpeel]

but it is nice to see somebody calling attention to the ridiculous compensation packages that Tilton, McDonald, and the rest have received.


Someone has been calling attention to this for years now, loudly and consistently - AFA.

If you look through the bankruptcy proceedings, the only group on the property to consistently call attention to the KERPS, executive compensation etc was AFA. There were consistent efforts to get the other labor groups at United on the same page, but Bathhurst in particular would not play.

ALPA leadership rolled over during bankruptcy - and are now reacting to a (justifiably) angry pilot membership, reflecting the terrible state of the airline...

I guess it' better late than never....

 

[ualdriver]

Someone has been calling attention to this for years now, loudly and consistently - AFA.

There's a difference between "loudly" complaining about executive compensation (or any other bankruptcy issue for that matter) and making arguments to the appropriate people at the appropriate time behind the scenes. Just because you didn't see ALPA leaders screaming at a Tribune reporter about one matter or another doesn't mean issues like executive compensation were condoned by ALPA leaders. They simply didn't fight as many of their battles in the press.

 

[mmahpeel]

There's a difference between "loudly" complaining about executive compensation (or any other bankruptcy issue for that matter) and making arguments to the appropriate people at the appropriate time behind the scenes.


It was wholly appropriate to make the arguments in court, and with embarrassingly few exceptions, AFA was the only one who did so. Further, it made a huge difference in the courts - for example, AFA's solo efforts significantly limited the extent and amounts of the KERP....

Just because you didn't see ALPA leaders screaming at a Tribune reporter about one matter or another doesn't mean issues like executive compensation were condoned by ALPA leaders. They simply didn't fight as many of their battles in the press.

Perhaps this is true. What has changed since exiting bankruptcy that is now encouraging ALPA to do so?

From my standpoint, nothing is changed, except the deep concessions from all groups are cementing an even deeper resentment of mangement.

 

[casual rat]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there is widespread resentment towards Tilton, McDonald and the BOD--excluding the zombies, lemmings and the KoolAid enhanced in the company. It's not just one group that holds them equal to a parasite, I think it's pretty widespread by now. Heck, I'll go so far as to say that even retirees who left the company before those two carpetbaggers were put in charge, resent them too.

 

[JungleClone]

Two profitable quarters? Puh-lease. Do you honestly think that's a solid indicator that UA is back on sound, consistently profitable footing? You have got to be kidding me. Remember Enron? They were able to easily put lipstick on a pig to make their numbers look much better. Do you think THAT much has changed? It hasn't. I'm not saying UA is cooking their books. My point is that there are many ways to legally play 3-card monte with your accounting statements and SEC filings to make things look a bit better than they really are.

This was inevitable. This is why true labor peace is impossible in the airline industry. Because when you put aside all the rhetoric and phony cumbaya attitudes from both sides, it will always be an us vs. them environment. UA ALPA fleeced UA in 2000. Advantage pilots. Post-9/11, UA used Force Majeure and bankruptcy to roll back the gains made in 2000. Advantage UA. Now UA is out of bankruptcy, has had a couple of "profitable" quarters. So the pilots want to make up for some lost time and get a piece of the action. Is there anyone out there who DIDN'T predict that this would eventually happen? And it isn't just the pilots. All the other labor groups will eventually ante up to the trough to attempt to get their share as well.

I think this has more to do with the pilots knowing that Tilton is ACTIVELY shopping UA to everyone and their mother. This is their way of saying, "hey, Glenn, remember us? We're a very powerful group who can make life miserable for you and screech this airline to a halt. Ask Jim Goodwin and Rono Dutta. We know you're going to do a deal with SOME carrier soon. You're going to have to take care of us if you want our support." That's my take. Remember how quick Dubinsky was to support the UA/US merger once the pilots got their fat post-ESOP contract? Not much has changed, other than the names of the folks involved. And if Tilton wants the support of the pilots, he will have to take care of them again. Otherwise, any deal he wants to make happen is just futile. It's times like this when I am so glad that I finally got out of this industry. While I do miss the thrill of being at the airport working, as well as the people I worked with, I don't miss this kind of garbage one bit. Best of luck to all of you. Don't think for a moment that Glenn Tilton and his Not Ready For Primetime Players, have your best interests at heart. They don't. It's all about fattening their wallets and the wallets of their investors. People like them don't ever give a damn about the employees.

 

[UAL_TECH]

Way to unify the troops!


I used to think that too.

Fear makes people do that. :blink:

It's OK to lay off 2000 talented pilots and replace them with RJ's being flown by extremely inexperienced, 500 hours pilots at Mesa, for example. It's OK. They probably won't do as good a job as our pilots can, but they'll do an ADEQUATE job. It's OK to lay off 100's of talented mechanics and replace them with Joe Blow FBO mechanics because the FBO guy will do an ADEQUATE job even though I know our laid off mechanics could do a better job.

Stop it, yer killin me!!!

I'd be very concerned about any group's salaries going up at this time. The argument that these management guys are a small group of people so it "doesn't matter" is ridiculous. The simulator technicians are a small group of employees. If they came to the company and said, "hey, let's open our contract early and give ourselves a pay raise because we're a small group of employees. Don't worry, the pay increase won't really matter to a 20B company because we're such a small group of people." Would that be OK? I doubt the other employee groups would be very happy with that. Yet it's OK for a small group of management guys to get yet another "bonus." Bull!!!!

Hey Driver,

Not to belittle the importance of you drivers, but your calculations are off.
In 8/2001 we had 10,140 pilots and 15,390 mech’s.
In 8/2006 we had 6,400 pilots and 5,500 mech’s.

With the implementation of the ‘Lean’ program the turbine shop went from 140 engines a year to 100 a year which will result in more layoffs of mech’s.

Don’t worry though; tell Duane Worthless we got your back.
:jerry:
B) UT

 

[UAL_TECH]

Someone has been calling attention to this for years now, loudly and consistently - AFA.

There's a difference between "loudly" complaining about executive compensation (or any other bankruptcy issue for that matter) and making arguments to the appropriate people at the appropriate time behind the scenes. Just because you didn't see ALPA leaders screaming at a Tribune reporter about one matter or another doesn't mean issues like executive compensation were condoned by ALPA leaders. They simply didn't fight as many of their battles in the press.

Money for Nothing

 

[Bob Owens]

Ridiculous? Not really. UAL is a 16 BILLION dollar company that, for a time, was truly on its deathbed. The fact that we've had two profitable quarters is testament that things have drastically changed for the better (profitability-wise). Time will tell if this trend continues.

There are plenty of things that this company is doing wrong, but executive compensation is not out of line when looking at $15+ billion companies.

Frankly I am not as concerned about a few dozen senior managements' salaries than I am about the thousands of runaway pilots salaries after Contract 2000. Pilots' pay after that was staggering, and returning to that kind of pay rate would be fatal.

Well its the size of the ROI thats really matters isnt it? When airline workers in NY or CA cite the fact that comparable workers in other industries make far more than they do the bosses dont want to hear it. But then they will cite what other CEOs make in a vain attempt to justify their REDUCULOUS compensation, what hypocrites!

Deathbed-obviously they were faking.These economic miracles we see over and over again in this industry, where the industry is going out of business one year and flush with billions the next could only mean one thing, we have been had. Their miracles are about as valid as these miracles you see of TV where the guy with the mike smacks some wheelchair bound person on the head and all of a sudden the person can walk again.Thes people were stuck in a chair for years and all of a sudden they can jump up and dance across the stage, in the meantime you and I can hardly walk after a night of sleeping.

Where do you get this BS about runaway salaries? So if a salary stays flat in real terms you consider it runaway? The fact is that the so called gains made by airline workes in the early part of this decade at best restored wage levels to their historical buying power, executives (and sports stars and celebrities)on the other hand are the only people who have seen real "runaway salaries" in the last three decades. They cant produce a justifiable reason for that. To justify UAL execs runaway compensation packages because other industries may be doing the same thing does not justify the erosion of real wages paid to the folks who actually produce.The pilots would be completely justified in seeking full restoration, and shutting down UAL if they dont get it.


The sooner the pilots strike the better.The sooner we all shut this industry down for real the better.

Disruption to economic activity is the only means through which working people can gain back what was lost. Thats how we got it in the first place. Anyone who thinks that by rolling over to the company that they are acting in a partnership with these people are fools. Its like the victims of the holocaust cooperating with the Nazis.Our careers and standard of living are being destroyed, the executives have made it clear that they intend on making us poorer so they can become even richer, their actions prove that, despite the lies that come out of their mouths, if we dont fight back we will defineatly lose, if we fight back we might lose, but we also might win. Even if we lose we can take some satifaction in that they did not get their victory for free.