Kevin Mccormick, Administrator

[twuer]

Yes, we need to go amfa so we can go bankrupt, so we can boast the highest outsource rate and the highest layoffs numbers. So we can decimate the work force and do our part to employ folks in Singapore!!!
Then after we do that we can screw our retirees!!


Yes indeedy, we need to go amfa!!!!

 

[Buck]

What Local 514 officer position are you running for?

 

[twuer]

What Local 514 officer position are you running for?

Sorry to disappoint you Buck but I'm not running for any position.

Why do you ask? Think I should???

 

[Buck]

Why I am asking is because you are practicing the TWU tactic of attempting to instill fear in the membership.

As for you running for office, you seem qualified. See above statement.

 

[Checking it Out]

Like you Buck Many of the writers on this board do not hold an office within the TWU!!! They believe in what they are fighting for! Whether it is the Amfa darkside or the TWU light!

 

[twuer]

You're darn right Buck. The membership should be afraid of amfa!! Look what they have done. . . and only in the last couple of years. . . .

Please let me repeat. . . .

Yes, we need to go amfa so we can go bankrupt, so we can boast the highest outsource rate and the highest layoffs numbers. So we can decimate the work force and do our part to employ folks in Singapore!!!
Then after we do that we can screw our retirees!!

I'm not saying anything that isn't true!!

YOU SHOULD BE AFRAID. . . .VERY AFRAID!!!

You suger coat amfa until it is easy to swallow. There will soon be a lot of regurgitation taking place!!!! In fact, I believe the barf bag is half full!!!!

 

[Steve Connell]

I think Buck sees your point, that is why he has not responded. Maybe he too can be educated.

 

[Buck]

I think Buck sees your point, that is why he has not responded. Maybe he too can be educated.

Responding thanks to Steves guidance:

Why should the membership be afraid of change from twenty years of concessionary contracts?

All AMFA is doing is trying to live with or repair the damage created by the industrial unions they are replacing.

When the membership at the AMFA represented airlines ( thats plural ) feels that they are not receiving representation, they have the option to remove there representitive. Something the industrial unionist do not understand.

 

[Bill]

Responding thanks to Steves guidance:

Why should the membership be afraid of change from twenty years of concessionary contracts?

All AMFA is doing is trying to live with or repair the damage created by the industrial unions they are replacing.

When the membership at the AMFA represented airlines ( thats plural ) feels that they are not receiving representation, they have the option to remove there representitive. Something the industrial unionist do not understand.

If we see something as not working why wouldn't we want to change it??? You take us for folks who don't have common sense Buck. I for one am doing my part right now and am going to vote for new officers at Local 514.

All AMFA is doing is trying to live with or repair the damage created by the industrial unions they are replacing.

As for the AMFA, what have they repaired Buck??? The job market over seas??? The rate of unemployment???? AMFA's track record is certainly nothing to be proud of and you know it. I would certainly hope that AMFA is doing a little more than what you say. I mean, poeple's lives are in their hands. . . .the ones that are left anyway. It seems that all AMFA can do is blame everyone else for things that go wrong and take a hypocritical stance on everything. Some other AMFA smart guy even stated that the TWU is to blame for the recent concessions but when it comes to AMFA, 9/11 was their "nemesis" now that AMFA may be considering concessions.

You gripe and complain about the 20 years of concessions. I have come to the conclusion that that is about all you and some of these AMFA supporters can do. . . gripe and complain while sitting on your butts. And then cry again because things don't go the way you want them to. You mentioned in another topic that you have been organizing for 15 years. What have you done in that 15 years Buck?? Have you changed anything???

Being able to vote Delle out is not the answer to the ills of the airline industry. Quit trying to think that AMFA is a cure all for our problems. They go much farther than that. AMFA has yet to be proven as a worthy union. Hell, they aren't even that well established. And that's after what, 45 years????

AMFA is not the union we want representing us at AA.

 

[Bob Owens]

Yes, we need to go amfa so we can go bankrupt, so we can boast the highest outsource rate and the highest layoffs numbers. So we can decimate the work force and do our part to employ folks in Singapore!!!
Then after we do that we can screw our retirees!!


Yes indeedy, we need to go amfa!!!!

AA spends more on outsourcing than ANY other airline.

By the way do we even fly to Singapore?

We already screwed our retirees. We screwed them by not giving them credit for the first year of service-which wipes out the so called higher multiplier and we have been paying for our current and retiree health benifits for years.

 

[Buck]

If we see something as not working why wouldn't we want to change it??? You take us for folks who don't have common sense Buck. I for one am doing my part right now and am going to vote for new officers at Local 514.

All AMFA is doing is trying to live with or repair the damage created by the industrial unions they are replacing.

As for the AMFA, what have they repaired Buck??? The job market over seas??? The rate of unemployment???? AMFA's track record is certainly nothing to be proud of and you know it. I would certainly hope that AMFA is doing a little more than what you say. I mean, poeple's lives are in their hands. . . .the ones that are left anyway. It seems that all AMFA can do is blame everyone else for things that go wrong and take a hypocritical stance on everything. Some other AMFA smart guy even stated that the TWU is to blame for the recent concessions but when it comes to AMFA, 9/11 was their "nemesis" now that AMFA may be considering concessions.

You gripe and complain about the 20 years of concessions. I have come to the conclusion that that is about all you and some of these AMFA supporters can do. . . gripe and complain while sitting on your butts. And then cry again because things don't go the way you want them to. You mentioned in another topic that you have been organizing for 15 years. What have you done in that 15 years Buck?? Have you changed anything???

Being able to vote Delle out is not the answer to the ills of the airline industry. Quit trying to think that AMFA is a cure all for our problems. They go much farther than that. AMFA has yet to be proven as a worthy union. Hell, they aren't even that well established. And that's after what, 45 years????

AMFA is not the union we want representing us at AA.

If you cannot see that it is not working after twenty years of concessions I guess you answered your own question. I believe that the majority of the membership has common snese, they are just being mislead. But as you state a new regeime will fix that.

AMFA cannot repair years of concessionary contracts overnight.

No it is not about me, it is about the membership and especially the SRP/OSM classification along wiht the multi-teir payscales.

What have I done for the last 15 years, I have attempt to remove the cancer know as the TWU. As one of the other TWU supporters put it "Not Much Luck" huh Buck?

 

[High Speed Steel]

All AMFA is doing is trying to live with or repair the damage created by the industrial unions they are replacing.

Buck, You suggest AMFA is in process of repairing damage caused by Industrial Unions. Then how do you explain the proposed demolition of the Northwest hangers that are now vacated due to the elimination of maintenance work to overseas repair stations...? Is Delle and Wildermouth going to be driving the Bulldozers...? You know there is no sanity in supporting an association that will outsource your job.... Then tear down your house..!!!!!!!!

------------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Bob Owens]

You're darn right Buck. The membership should be afraid of amfa!! Look what they have done. . . and only in the last couple of years. . . .

Please let me repeat. . . .

Yes, we need to go amfa so we can go bankrupt, so we can boast the highest outsource rate and the highest layoffs numbers. So we can decimate the work force and do our part to employ folks in Singapore!!!
Then after we do that we can screw our retirees!!

I'm not saying anything that isn't true!!

YOU SHOULD BE AFRAID. . . .VERY AFRAID!!!

You suger coat amfa until it is easy to swallow. There will soon be a lot of regurgitation taking place!!!! In fact, I believe the barf bag is half full!!!!

Look at what AMFA has done? Look at what the TWU has done!

The fact is that thousands of jobs have been eliminated at AA. AA spends more on outsourcing than any other airline despite the fact that they have the lowest labor costs per hour.

Have there been layoffs at NWA-yes. UAL is still under the IAM contract . I've been in this industry for over 20 years and layoffs have always been a part of the deal. Along with working nights, weekends and holidays. The flip side was that when you got seniority you were less likely to be hit with layoffs and you made good money. NWA mechanics who were laid off have recall rights. They will come back and when they do they will come back to a good job, one that pays well, pays holidays, sick days, shift pay and a whole slew of things that union workers expect, TWU excluded.

Let me repeat in response to your comment on Singapore and the retirees. AA doesnt fly to Singapore, but in many of those places that AA does they employ foreigners to do our work. LOA aside, since its not worth the paper its written on this practice continues as it always has. Are there any TWU represented workers at UAL? Well they agreed to the same thing that AMFA did. You see the TWU already set precedence 15 years ago with prefunding and flex benifits. In other words it took 9-11 for the other unions out there to fold like the TWU did.

Down there in your isolated little compound you may not be aware of things in the outside world. But out here on the line we are exposed to other workers. Since 1983 they have asked TWU represented workers at AA "What the hell are you guys doing over there, you are killing us". The fact is that for the last twenty years the TWU has been the scourge of the industry. WE have dragged down wages and benifits for everyone else. I dont know how the IAM stays quiet about it. We have an obligation as workers, not just mechanics, to boot this company friendly useless union out of our industry.

The TWUs company friendly wage lowering track record is not just confined to the airlines. When I started in this industry in 1980 I worked on aircraft that required that a mechanic assisted in the fueling. In talking with the fueler who worked for Allied Aviation I found out that he was Teamsters like me. He made a good wage. He made as much as a top paid mechanic. A few years ago I was talking to a fueler when the issue of wages came up and I was shocked to hear that he was making about the same-in dollars- as they were 20 years ago. He went on to tell me how through a series of mergers they ended up with the TWU and it has been downhill ever since.

The TWU is not a real union. They do not promote unity, they talk about it but in practice they promote division. They transfer work between members. They concockt all sorts of different pay rates by creating sub-classifications. They spred disinformation and fear. They defer blame. They blame the members for doing what the TWU said the members should do.They never take things and lead.

 

[Buck]

Buck, You suggest AMFA is in process of repairing damage caused by Industrial Unions. Then how do you explain the proposed demolition of the Northwest hangers that are now vacated due to the elimination of maintenance work to overseas repair stations...? Is Delle and Wildermouth going to be driving the Bulldozers...? You know there is no sanity in supporting an association that will outsource your job.... Then tear down your house..!!!!!!!!

------------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO all the way....!

The damage caused by industrial unions, especially the TWU has nothing to do with the structures the membership works in. The damage is to the democratic right of the membership at all levels.

Your comment about the AMFA leadership driving the bulldozer is a prime example of how the memberships of industrial unions are taught to believe. Blame it all on the leadership. This industry is changing, corporations including airlines are outsourcing, however the TWU would rather lower the wages of the membership to keep their definition of unionism alive. Only time will tell, but the membership is beginning to tire of this tactic. It may create or even preserve jobs, but eventually the membership will look to other ways to provide for themselves.

You know there is no sanity in supporting a union that will continue to lower your wages and benefits either....

 

[Bob Owens]

If we see something as not working why wouldn't we want to change it??? You take us for folks who don't have common sense Buck. I for one am doing my part right now and am going to vote for new officers at Local 514.

And what do you think that will accomplish? What are the "new" officers going to do that the old ones have not tried? Didnt Burchette get elected on a "change from within" platform? What happened?

When it looked like Burchette was aligning with a few of the other big locals to push for change from within, the International split up the other locals and made seperate locals. Burchette apparently either heeded the warning or sold out, he did after all end up becoming an International rep, we wont bother going into how he ended up back on the floor again. ( He does still hold an International position, and no doubt if he plays his cards right they will have a paying spot for him down the road. Getting back in the top slot in Tulsa will be a big plus for him.) The company fired most of the militant Local 501 board while the International stood by and did nothing-their lawsuit is still pending. Looks like the TWU will be paying out some money. Needless to say the International got its way but in order for 23000 members to support 22 locals (7000 in Tulsa) the TWU needed financial assistance from the company. The company then started to pay 40 hours UB for the Presidents without reimbursement. This illegal payout probably helped quiet everyone down. Most Local Presidents rolled that extra pay back into the Treasury or were finally able to come off the floor full time-did Local 514 roll it back in? Or did they just pocket it as a bonus and continue collecting their full Presidents pay from the Local plus the 40 hours from the company? Maybe thats what quieted Burchette up and made him Sonny's boy? Ironically I was told that Burchette griped about the company paid UB. I was told he said 'How will it look to the members with Local Presidents on company payroll', or something to that effect.

The fact is that it does not matter who you elect, control is at the top. As big as Tulsa is they are small compared to some other Locals in the TWU. Didnt Tulsa, and all the other Presidents vote against seperate locals? Sonny put them in anyway didnt he? Did you read the lawsuits from Local 562, Local 501, Boston-502(?) and the Lawsuits against the seperate Locals? In all cases it was determined that the International has control and is not subordinate to the Locals or the members. The Presidents council has no authority over the contract or the ATD. Its a fascade, meant to make the members feel that they have some control and input but there is only one signature that really counts on our contract, and thats Jim Little, and he is accountable to no member or local.The Constitution, the contract, everything, is under the control of the International.


Tulsa with their 7000 members is not going to change that because the other, larger, and even smaller locals in the TWU, who are not under the AA contract simply do not face the same thing we do. While they may, or may not, suffer from interference from the International they are not under their thumb like we are.

In other cases the contract only applies to one Local and the contracts name that Local as a party to the contract, their Presidents sign the contracts, ours only sign as witnesses.

The International has 30,000 members fractured and powerless and they will not give that up. They want us to be all split up so that no matter what happens they will have control. Even if Tulsa elected a radical it means nothing as long as they have a few other locals under their thumb. And they do, a lot of these guys who made it to President are not that bright and are totally dependant on the International. Many are sucking up for an International spot, a six figure paying, benifits that they would never consider getting for you, lifetime job where you never have to run for office again.

You obviously believe that change from within will be attainable through Tulsa and Tulsa alone. Tell me what do you really think is going to change through your election? Better quality popcorn and hotdogs at the hall? Maybe see them walking the floor a little more often? Well thats about all your Local can do. Get you double time back?-no contractual issue-under the control of the International. Get you your sick time back?-NO-see previous. Get you a better wage?-no again, see first item. Retore language?-No-see first item. Should I go on? The fact is the answers are out there in the various lawsiuts that have been heard over the last 4 years. The fact is that the TWU, under their Constitution does not even ever have to let the members ratify contracts. If they run a sham vote-like the last one-no big deal because technically you dont have the right to a vote. Their own statement in court is that the Constitutional provision for membership ratification only applies to NEW contracts, and as we all know, or should, under the RLA our contracts never expire, they are only modified.

Go ahead and vote your concious. You are simply playing into the Internationals game. There is nothing that they like better than to see a new face at the council. It just means that their system of having the members blame the Presidents, while getting the Presidents to blame the members is working like a charm for them. We still have not caught on, and as long as we are content to be limited to voting for witnesses to the contract we never will. Just dont get your hopes up too high. After nearly twenty years thats one thing I've learned with the TWU.