Judge Rejects Deal With United's Pilots

[Bear96]

so how is this a different action than striking only at a few flts at random...
is this the jonestown everybody drink the koolaid way??
how would this in your way of thinking ,not be the slit everyone's throats way??

[post="237088"][/post]​

Because a pilot, not a ditzy F/A, came up with it. Therefore it must be a good idea (even though it is bascially the same thing the F/As have been saying).

 

[spacewaitress]

Because a pilot, not a ditzy F/A, came up with it. Therefore it must be a good idea (even though it is bascially the same thing the F/As have been saying).

[post="237125"][/post]​

Yeah...something along the lines of summer of 2K, when we lost 750 million. That's not slit your throat...that's bullet to the head. We're just lucky we had money then.

The double standard kills me.

 

[Busdrvr]

Yeah...something along the lines of summer of 2K, when we lost 750 million. That's not slit your throat...that's bullet to the head. We're just lucky we had money then.

The double standard kills me.

[post="237150"][/post]​

You guys crack me up. there appears to be more brains in a box of hair. 🙄 . Only Bob Owens seems to understand the concept. Maybe if I take an ad out in Cosmo or The Enquirer, you could read up on it. When you shut down YOUR OWN airline, people get POed. they go elsewhere. When the ENTIRE INDUSTRY shuts down at the same time, then the focus is taken off the individual airline and put onto the entire industry.

 

[Busdrvr]

Yeah...something along the lines of summer of 2K, when we lost 750 million. That's not slit your throat...that's bullet to the head. We're just lucky we had money then.

The double standard kills me.

[post="237150"][/post]​

Let's talk about "double standards"
1st The pilots paid out about 4 times the amount you cite as a loss (assuming your inaccurate number is even close to reality), having bought and paid for over 25% of the company. A good part of that cash went straight to the balance sheet. Do you go to the neighbor's house and complain about the color they paint the walls? you had no ownership stake in UAL. It wasn't your company.
2nd Unless you grew up paying a nickle to see the silent movie matinee, the pilots actually SAVED your job. Without that summer and the pilot contract, the buyout would have gone through. UAL would have assumed EVERY DIME of U's debt (and pension obligations), PLUS an additional 4 billion by buying the shares of a company for $60 bucks each when AMR walked away from the sme deal at $27 for being "too expensive" IF UAL (an it's a BIG if) could have survived that fiasco after 911, then your AFA pals at U, with higher seniority would be sending you postcards from HKG while you sat at home furloughed. let's see 4 billion (not counting U's debt) - 750 million = 3.25 billion. Seems you owe us money.

 

[spacewaitress]

You guys crack me up. there appears to be more brains in a box of hair. 🙄 . Only Bob Owens seems to understand the concept. Maybe if I take an ad out in Cosmo or The Enquirer, you could read up on it. When you shut down YOUR OWN airline, people get POed. they go elsewhere. When the ENTIRE INDUSTRY shuts down at the same time, then the focus is taken off the individual airline and put onto the entire industry.

[post="237157"][/post]​

Lotsa luck making it happen. And guess what...AFA came up with that strategy. Pay attention...then try something original.

 

[spacewaitress]

Let's talk about "double standards"
1st The pilots paid out about 4 times the amount you cite as a loss (assuming your inaccurate number is even close to reality), having bought and paid for over 25% of the company. A good part of that cash went straight to the balance sheet. Do you go to the neighbor's house and complain about the color they paint the walls? you had no ownership stake in UAL. It wasn't your company.
2nd Unless you grew up paying a nickle to see the silent movie matinee, the pilots actually SAVED your job. Without that summer and the pilot contract, the buyout would have gone through. UAL would have assumed EVERY DIME of U's debt (and pension obligations), PLUS an additional 4 billion by buying the shares of a company for $60 bucks each when AMR walked away from the sme deal at $27 for being "too expensive" IF UAL (an it's a BIG if) could have survived that fiasco after 911, then your AFA pals at U, with higher seniority would be sending you postcards from HKG while you sat at home furloughed. let's see 4 billion (not counting U's debt) - 750 million = 3.25 billion. Seems you owe us money.

[post="237171"][/post]​

Now that's original.

 

[Busdrvr]

Lotsa luck making it happen. And guess what...AFA came up with that strategy. Pay attention...then try something original.

[post="237179"][/post]​

Really?! When was that? Or do you mean doing Chaos at "all the airlines" UAL, U and Aloha.... And BTW, I never said it would happen or was in the works. I merely told someone what is was. There are too many greedy little trolls in this industry that would cross the line at their little airline in an attempt to profit off of the solidarity of the professionals in the rest onf the industry

 

[The Gopher]

Yeah Driver that will be a SMART quick way to kill off UniTED!!!!!

[post="237078"][/post]​

STOP!! Or I will shoot myself!

 

[Borescope]

Well the SWA Flight Attendants (TWU no less) were one of the first to come out in support of the AFA.

[post="237086"][/post]​

To say it, and act on it are two entirely different things. Lets see how many of them really walk shoulder to shoulder with us or walk to their airplanes thinking what a bunch of fools we are.

 

[Borescope]

Let's talk about "double standards"
1st The pilots paid out about 4 times the amount you cite as a loss (assuming your inaccurate number is even close to reality), having bought and paid for over 25% of the company. A good part of that cash went straight to the balance sheet.

[post="237171"][/post]​

Bus,
You are right and it makes one take a step back and look at the whole thing. Everyone is blaming the pilots for trying to get as much money on their contract as possible. The reality is that we would all have done the same thing, is human nature to get the best we can. If your union doesn't fight for every last coin then you have the wrong people running the union. Some of us are probably upset that we didn't thing "outside the box" first. This whole thing reminds me of people on welfare who think they are "entitled" because they don't have as much and are unwilling to work as hard to get it. Get what you can now, because there may not be enough to go around later.

 

[kcabpilot]

Unless you grew up paying a nickle to see the silent movie matinee, the pilots actually SAVED your job. Without that summer and the pilot contract, the buyout would have gone through. UAL would have assumed EVERY DIME of U's debt (and pension obligations), PLUS an additional 4 billion by buying the shares of a company for $60 bucks each...

[post="237171"][/post]​

Bus, it was a long time ago but as I remember...the pilots were all 'on board' with the US Air buy. The summer of 2k didn't have anything to do with that. If Goodwin had been smart enough to settle with the pilots at end of contract time instead of doing the classic UAL tunnel vision thing with the US Air deal it probably would have happened. Heck, at that time the mechanics were walking around wearing '30/hour or walk' buttons which was less than what the PEB ended up giving them.

That was over 4 years ago and you know - UAL management hasn't gotten any smarter :blink:

[EDIT] I take that back - it was our own esteemed board member Peterpaul that signed off on the US Air deal. The pilots were against it so Busdriver is right in that respect. The last statement however, still rings true.

 

[UAL_TECH]

You guys crack me up. there appears to be more brains in a box of hair. 🙄 . Only Bob Owens seems to understand the concept. Maybe if I take an ad out in Cosmo or The Enquirer, you could read up on it. When you shut down YOUR OWN airline, people get POed. they go elsewhere. When the ENTIRE INDUSTRY shuts down at the same time, then the focus is taken off the individual airline and put onto the entire industry.

[post="237157"][/post]​

Bob is not the only one that understands/agrees with the concept.
It would be fantastic to have 'all' airline employees withhold services for a couple of days. Sign me up!!!

Maybe I'll go camping

B) UT

 

[UAL_TECH]

Bus, it was a long time ago but as I remember...the pilots were all 'on board' with the US Air buy. The summer of 2k didn't have anything to do with that. If Goodwin had been smart enough to settle with the pilots at end of contract time instead of doing the classic UAL tunnel vision thing with the US Air deal it probably would have happened. Heck, at that time the mechanics were walking around wearing '30/hour or walk' buttons which was less than what the PEB ended up giving them.

That was over 4 years ago and you know - UAL management hasn't gotten any smarter  :blink:

[post="237310"][/post]​

Actually, I believe that ALPA voted against the merger and for Avolar.
Perterpaul voted for the merger and against Avolar.

Avolar would increase the pilot base but not the IAM.
Merger would dilute the AMFA supporters, increase IAM base and raise havoc with seniority issues with the pilots (and us, but the IAM didn't care about us).

B) UT

 

[kcabpilot]

Yea, you're right UT. Like I said, it was a long time ago. I'd almost forgotten that I was once under the auspices of the :eye: AM

 

[UAL_TECH]

Yea, you're right UT. Like I said, it was a long time ago. I'd almost forgotten that I was once under the auspices of the :eye: AM

[post="237356"][/post]​

Thanks, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.. 😛

UAL management hasn't gotten any smarter :blink:

But this still stands true!!!

Take Care,
B) UT