Joe Gordon to replace Gary Yingst

[ch53D]

Hardly - I'm not gonna be here. Go ahead and twist it, though - rather funny.

Goose, these words are yours.

“Rumor has it (hopefully true) there'll be some retirement incentive offered to us old farts to get the upcoming contract ratified; a buyout/sellout of sorts as was the case some years ago. Not exactly how I'd hoped to do things, but I do place a value on what sanity I have left.â€￾

The way I read them, you would sell out for your own personnel gains. It sounds to me as a ME statement.

 

[eolesen]

Selling out is crossing a picket line.

Walking away from a job you love because you feel that you're worth more than what you're being paid is courage and self-respect.

 

[aapitbull]

The term "coattail riders", among many other terms coming from so-called "informational meetings" comes to mind, not from you directly perhaps, but from others attempting to stir emotion and support. "If it weren't for these __________ (fill in the blank), we could get the company to pay us more". Ring a bell?

"Where is it written that AMTs can not belong to an AMT only union? The pilots and f/a, electricians, mason, plumbing, etc. unions do it. Why not AMTs?" It's not written, and that's fine - have our own totally separate association or union - leave the other trades and jobs out of it - leave the "related" out of the equation. See to it the followers don't piss off the other trades along the way as a matter of practice and just maybe we could get some support rather than jeers due to the chest-thumping and ego displays by some of our trade's members.

The term "craft" as used by the amfa supporters has always amused me. Since when is running a wrench or rivet gun a "craft"? Perhaps many years of experience could qualify a individual as a "Tradesmaster", but we remove and replace things on a large machine. The word "craft" implies a certain amount of artistry - removing and replacing an "H" link is hardly artistry. A joke years ago referred to a garbage man as a "sanitation engineer". Implied elevation of status simply by a change of terminology does not impress me, rather, I and others find this quite laughable and only a show of desperation in seeking status, however well deserved, by our trade.

Finally, your association's (AMTA) patron saint, Charles Taylor, was a tradesman - a machinist; one of a trade that I've personally heard belittled by amfa supporters many times. Building an engine as he did from aluminum, from scratch, would not be an easy feat today with modern basic machinery - God only knows what he had to contend with in building his lightweight 12 hp engine for the Wright Brothers.

I do believe, however, that were Mr. Taylor alive and physically able today, he would attempt to slap the arrogance out of more than a few aircraft mechanics.

FYI - as I understand it, Joe Gordon was a FSC in DFW or AFW that sucked his way to the international level. Doesn't sound promising.

I spent six years of my life trying to educate members just like you and I’ll be the first on to tell you I failed but almost everything you post is TWU BullS@#$ Dell did not call the strike the members did McCormick did not run away he was fired and what part of 4800 guys voting to strike the vast majority of whom honored the strike and at the end of the day retired or quit rather than going back to Northwest

Now you may not like AMFA and a real democratic union may scare the hell out of you but please at least do a little research!

 

[aapitbull]

Selling out is crossing a picket line.

Walking away from a job you love because you feel that you're worth more than what you're being paid is courage and self-respect.

This is exactly what happened at Northwest now the where other issues to be sure the series c stock the fact that these guys had already given concessions to save the company in 1992 a string of broken promises from management reaching all the way back to the 1980’s so you see Goose there is a lot more to the story than the TWU told you and even the former moderator has figured it out and he was management

 

[The Goose]

Selling out is crossing a picket line.

Walking away from a job you love because you feel that you're worth more than what you're being paid is courage and self-respect.

That, sir, is exactly my feelings. Thanks for stating it better than I did.

I'll let them argue with themselves from now on. The conversation should be interesting.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

The term "coattail riders", among many other terms coming from so-called "informational meetings" comes to mind, not from you directly perhaps, but from others attempting to stir emotion and support. "If it weren't for these __________ (fill in the blank), we could get the company to pay us more". Ring a bell?

"Where is it written that AMTs can not belong to an AMT only union? The pilots and f/a, electricians, mason, plumbing, etc. unions do it. Why not AMTs?" It's not written, and that's fine - have our own totally separate association or union - leave the other trades and jobs out of it - leave the "related" out of the equation. See to it the followers don't piss off the other trades along the way as a matter of practice and just maybe we could get some support rather than jeers due to the chest-thumping and ego displays by some of our trade's members.

The term "craft" as used by the amfa supporters has always amused me. Since when is running a wrench or rivet gun a "craft"? Perhaps many years of experience could qualify a individual as a "Tradesmaster", but we remove and replace things on a large machine. The word "craft" implies a certain amount of artistry - removing and replacing an "H" link is hardly artistry. A joke years ago referred to a garbage man as a "sanitation engineer". Implied elevation of status simply by a change of terminology does not impress me, rather, I and others find this quite laughable and only a show of desperation in seeking status, however well deserved, by our trade.

Finally, your association's (AMTA) patron saint, Charles Taylor, was a tradesman - a machinist; one of a trade that I've personally heard belittled by amfa supporters many times. Building an engine as he did from aluminum, from scratch, would not be an easy feat today with modern basic machinery - God only knows what he had to contend with in building his lightweight 12 hp engine for the Wright Brothers.

I do believe, however, that were Mr. Taylor alive and physically able today, he would attempt to slap the arrogance out of more than a few aircraft mechanics.

FYI - as I understand it, Joe Gordon was a FSC in DFW or AFW that sucked his way to the international level. Doesn't sound promising.

Goose, yes, the term "coat tail riders" was used. And to be fair, let's be honest. The situation then was that the twu was, and is, an industrial union. And the terms "skilled" & "unskilled" labor were together in the same bargaining group.

Before you, or another twu can do nothing wrong believer jumps on this post, attempt to make AMTs feel elitist you can stop right here. Facts remain facts, there are several work groups to run an airline. Some are more technical, or difficult to fill, than others. The AMTs were out numbered by FSC. Our local meetings were for the most part dealing with FSC issues. When ever there was a contract the company was forced to keep the scale between AMTs and FSCs close. Hence the "coat tail riding" term.

"It's not written, and that's fine - " Okay, so you agree with me. And that's what was tried. A union fot AMTs. That is not elitism, that is called craft unionism. Now, some people are able to stare facts in the face and understand AND accept them. That is where the part twu can do no wrong believers have a problem.

As for the AMTA, Charles E. Tylor was a machinist. He also was the first aircraft mechanic. So what is your point? There are unlicensed AMTs at Boeing making some of the best aircraft in the world. I guess my point about facts and understanding them as they concern the AMTA and what I am trying to do is lost on certain people.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Goose, yes, the term "coat tail riders" was used. And to be fair, let's be honest. The situation then was that the twu was, and is, an industrial union. And the terms "skilled" & "unskilled" labor were together in the same bargaining group.

Before you, or another twu can do nothing wrong believer jumps on this post, attempt to make AMTs feel elitist you can stop right here. Facts remain facts, there are several work groups to run an airline. Some are more technical, or difficult to fill, than others. The AMTs were out numbered by FSC. Our local meetings were for the most part dealing with FSC issues. When ever there was a contract the company was forced to keep the scale between AMTs and FSCs close. Hence the "coat tail riding" term.

"It's not written, and that's fine - " Okay, so you agree with me. And that's what was tried. A union fot AMTs. That is not elitism, that is called craft unionism. Now, some people are able to stare facts in the face and understand AND accept them. That is where the part twu can do no wrong believers have a problem.

As for the AMTA, Charles E. Tylor was a machinist. He also was the first aircraft mechanic. So what is your point? There are unlicensed AMTs at Boeing making some of the best aircraft in the world. I guess my point about facts and understanding them as they concern the AMTA and what I am trying to do is lost on certain people.

Ken,

Glad to see that you, and your AMTA, have finally admitted that Charles E. Taylor was a machinist.....!

Why don't you try defending, and promoting his trade......

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Glad to see that you, and your AMTA, have finally admitted that Charles E. Taylor was a machinist.....!

Was it ever in question? I don't think so.

Why don't you try defending, and promoting his trade......

Sheese!

.

 

[ch53D]

Selling out is crossing a picket line.

Walking away from a job you love because you feel that you're worth more than what you're being paid is courage and self-respect.

Crossing a picket would make you a scab. Which I don’t think Goose would ever do.

Selling out is voting yes for a contract that benefits a few and screws the present and future employees, that is a ME person.

Self-respect is stepping up and moving on with your life without screwing who is left for personal gains by voting yes for a substandard contract.

 

[The Goose]

Crossing a picket would make you a scab. Which I don’t think Goose would ever do.

Selling out is voting yes for a contract that benefits a few and screws the present and future employees, that is a ME person.

Self-respect is stepping up and moving on with your life without screwing who is left for personal gains by voting yes for a substandard contract.

Parsing words is sometimes an effective way to get another to somewhat agree with another's perspective, that is, to say 'OK' just to get an individual pushing a particular viewpoint to shut up. I recognize that trick very well, as I had an ex that operated in that manner and fell into that trap many times. Notice I said 'ex'.

That's also a basic sales ploy - little bits of agreement hither, thither and yon eventually equates to a sale, as does pumping up a group by telling them all they ever wanted to hear, leaving out, of course the negative implications. Sound familiar to you? It should.

If you want to know what a person would do in a particular situation, ask - don't presume.

 

[TWU informer]

Parsing words is sometimes an effective way to get another to somewhat agree with another's perspective, that is, to say 'OK' just to get an individual pushing a particular viewpoint to shut up. I recognize that trick very well, as I had an ex that operated in that manner and fell into that trap many times. Notice I said 'ex'.

That's also a basic sales ploy - little bits of agreement hither, thither and yon eventually equates to a sale, as does pumping up a group by telling them all they ever wanted to hear, leaving out, of course the negative implications. Sound familiar to you? It should.

If you want to know what a person would do in a particular situation, ask - don't presume.

That sounds real familiar....

.....LIKE


ILC - Industry Leading Contract

United We Bargain Divided We Beg

Best Workers in the World

American's Real Strength

United We Stand - Contract '95

I AM THE UNION

Triumph With Unity

60 Years Strong

An Injustice to One is an Injustice to All

Strike Force - Dead Serious

Vote No SQ 695

Right to Work for Less

Right to Work is Wrong

Flush Rush

What part of UNION don't you understand...


On
and
On
and
ON

Or even better yet, after Local Elections were rigged to the hilt, put out a Newsletter about how a re-count was held and one position (Sargeant at Arms) changed. Big Friggin Deal! As if we are stupid enough to fall for that Bullshit when everyone knows the damn thing was rigged. This Union is now rated tops on the Bullshit Propaganda charts. We are you friggin people going to wake up and stop believing the utter comtempt of the truth and quit worshipping the sloganism that is NOT unionism?

 

[Bill]

Or even better yet, after Local Elections were rigged to the hilt, put out a Newsletter about how a re-count was held and one position (Sargeant at Arms) changed. Big Friggin Deal! As if we are stupid enough to fall for that Bullshit when everyone knows the damn thing was rigged. This Union is now rated tops on the Bullshit Propaganda charts. We are you friggin people going to wake up and stop believing the utter comtempt of the truth and quit worshipping the sloganism that is NOT unionism?

Dave you're so full of crap. So I guess you have proof of these allegations??? Or are you just using this lame excuse as a cover. Here's my take.....Your contempt for the previous officers was blatantly obvious, now you have new ones you cried so often for. Use the election process as an excuse when the choice that was made didn't turn out the way you wanted. Brilliant Dave.

YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE!!!

 

[Man of the People]

Dave you're so full of crap. So I guess you have proof of these allegations??? Or are you just using this lame excuse as a cover. Here's my take.....Your contempt for the previous officers was blatantly obvious, now you have new ones you cried so often for. Use the election process as an excuse when the choice that was made didn't turn out the way you wanted. Brilliant Dave.

YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE!!!

These last few post are jut an indication of why we are in the mess we are in. This thread was to discuss (and hopefully unfurl) why Yingst was replaced with Gordon. Now, just like always, the conversation steers towards other minutia and nothing about the original thread. :down:

 

[TWU informer]

Dave you're so full of crap. So I guess you have proof of these allegations??? Or are you just using this lame excuse as a cover. Here's my take.....Your contempt for the previous officers was blatantly obvious, now you have new ones you cried so often for. Use the election process as an excuse when the choice that was made didn't turn out the way you wanted. Brilliant Dave.

YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE!!!

New Officers?

Every incumbent E-Board Member that didn't run for other office was re-elected.

What New Officers?

 

[The Goose]

That sounds real familiar....

.....LIKE
ILC - Industry Leading Contract

United We Bargain Divided We Beg

Best Workers in the World

American's Real Strength

United We Stand - Contract '95

I AM THE UNION

Triumph With Unity

60 Years Strong

An Injustice to One is an Injustice to All

Strike Force - Dead Serious

Vote No SQ 695

Right to Work for Less

Right to Work is Wrong

Flush Rush

What part of UNION don't you understand...
On
and
On
and
ON

Or even better yet, after Local Elections were rigged to the hilt, put out a Newsletter about how a re-count was held and one position (Sargeant at Arms) changed. Big Friggin Deal! As if we are stupid enough to fall for that Bullshit when everyone knows the damn thing was rigged. This Union is now rated tops on the Bullshit Propaganda charts. We are you friggin people going to wake up and stop believing the utter comtempt of the truth and quit worshipping the sloganism that is NOT unionism?

Hey Dave - settle down! I don't believe the results are kosher either.

Were you simply looking for someone to dump on? They make pills for that.