Jim Little has got to go

[eolesen]

Perhaps it doesn't happen as much now, but when I joined AA in the 80's, it wasn't at all uncommon to see L3 or L4 supervisors/group supervisors/duty managers move back into a non-management position. Some people went back and forth more than once. I know of one agent (now either in BWI or DCA) who flip-flopped between being an agent and CSM at least three times.

I don't know if there were ever similar provisions in the various TWU contracts, but it used to be that flight attendants and pilots would retain their union number when "promoting" into a management position, including supervisory jobs. Not sure if it was time-restricted or open ended, but if they returned to the line from that position, they didn't lose their seniority. If they promoted or transfered into a second position, I believe they lost their number.

IIRC, Dick Gromel still carried his union card after becoming a center manager in Dispatch up until the day he retired as a L5 or L6, so it's possible that they had some provision in the dispatch contract. That would explain how Little was able to do it.

 

[TWU informer]

AMFAMAN,

I have often heard tell that Jim Little at one time was AA management. Was he? If so what were the details behind him returning as a dispatcher? What's this guys background?

I think Jim was a Supervisor of Fleet Service before becoming a Dispatcher, but I am not positive. I think he also was caught with some mail-order college degrees.

AMFAMAN knows more details of Little Jim's background.

 

[Boomer]

Perhaps it doesn't happen as much now, but when I joined AA in the 80's, it wasn't at all uncommon to see L3 or L4 supervisors/group supervisors/duty managers move back into a non-management position. Some people went back and forth more than once. I know of one agent (now either in BWI or DCA) who flip-flopped between being an agent and CSM at least three times.

I don't know if there were ever similar provisions in the various TWU contracts, but it used to be that flight attendants and pilots would retain their union number when "promoting" into a management position, including supervisory jobs. Not sure if it was time-restricted or open ended, but if they returned to the line from that position, they didn't lose their seniority. If they promoted or transfered into a second position, I believe they lost their number.

IIRC, Dick Gromel still carried his union card after becoming a center manager in Dispatch up until the day he retired as a L5 or L6, so it's possible that they had some provision in the dispatch contract. That would explain how Little was able to do it.

Both the Pilot and Flight Attendant groups took a far more reaching approach to retention of Union Seniority when a Union Member is promoted to Management ranks than the TWU.

With the TWU, a Union Member that accepts a position outside the bargaining unit only retains their Seniority for 180 days.

There have been numerous instances where a TWU Union Member took a position outside the bargaining unit for more than 180 days and sought to return but was denied by the TWU.

In my opinion the TWU and the contract groups it represents would be better served, in the long term, by taking the position of the Pilots and the Flight Attendants in allowing Union Members the opportunity to advance into Manangement with full return rights.

The realization that an individual may want to come back to the floor would dampen the "us versus them" nature we currently experience.

After all, it's not like the TWU is a real Union anyway.

Since the TWU acts as an arm of AA Management; why not treat all members of the TWU as future AA Leadership by allowing them to be "ManAAgement For AA DAAy."

 

[eolesen]

In my opinion the TWU and the contract groups it represents would be better served, in the long term, by taking the position of the Pilots and the Flight Attendants in allowing Union Members the opportunity to advance into Manangement with full return rights.

The realization that an individual may want to come back to the floor would dampen the "us versus them" nature we currently experience.

If nothing else, you might get some really good shop stewards or even negotiators out of the deal. Having someone who has worked both sides can turn out to be a real benefit -- they know what's in the playbook to be used against them. Management already uses that to their advantage. The union would be well served to think about how to get the same benefit in return.

 

[AMFAMAN]

AMFAMAN,

I have often heard tell that Jim Little at one time was AA management. Was he? If so what were the details behind him returning as a dispatcher? What's this guys background?

Bob Owens could give you a blow by blow of Little Jims history, but from court deposition transcripts (note--don't have time to find them right now), he hired in to Fleet Service at LGA in the early 70's. He leaves the union job, in a union town to take a management position for upwards of 6 years. Goes into dispatch which is twu, not sure before or after he gets their. Becomes their president, gets into the Intl, moves up with the 1999 grassroots effort and King Ed's departure, uses his diploma mill bought bachellor's and masters from Columbia State University, article below, to move on up, and the rest is history.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/20...kedegrees_x.htm

 

[Bill]

Tulsan's at the Local 514 will begin the chain of events in June that will finally change the TWU from a toothless joke of a union to a real union.

With the election of Dave Stewart as Local President and other Candidates for Change as convention delagates the covention delegates from Tulsa will no longer be a rubber stamp of the incumbant party.

Bus drivers and train maintenance convention delegates, Southwest Flight Attendant delagates, line maintenance delegates, and others who have been disappointed by the TWU's preference to represent themselves better than the workers they are paid to represent will all have a common goal-Rid the TWU of Jim Little.

Look for the TWU to begin actions against Mr. Stewart and other candidates for change in a desperate last minute attempt to maintain their power.

Change is coming and their scared $hitless.

Is Dave eligible??????

 

[AMFAMAN]

Is Dave eligible??????

Why would someone not be eligible? Why would the twu want to restrict who can run? Doesn't the twu welcome change?

 

[Boomer]

Is Dave eligible??????

The last time Local 514 attempted to restrict the eligibility of those running for office, they were forced by the TWU International to re-run the election.

Remember, any rule that is imposed by a local that would prevent a large majority of the membership from being eligible for office is likely to be found illegal by the DOL. That goes for meeting attendance requirements.

 

[eolesen]

I doubt the union could really disqualify Dave or any other non-officer for having disagreed with the TWU, although it is within their rights to discipline members who advocate decertification.

They can try, but IIRC, there's federal case precedent with the TWU (Local 100?) relatd to Sonny Hall trying to apply union sanctions on members who "disrupted" meetings by expressing viewpoints which differed with those of the union leadership. The courts held the view that LRMDA protected the member's right to question their union and offer opposing views.

The wildcard is whether or not they have attempted to bring him up on charges for advocating decertification. Assuming he hasn't engaged in such activity for some time, and that there's a reasonable statute of limitations on bringing up those charges, I don't think there's much of a chance of being disqualified and having it stick in the appeals process.

 

[TWU informer]

They are easier to predict than the time of Sunrise on Oklahoma.

Just Watch and Learn.

 

[upsilon]

Dave, I've been reading your posts all the way back to the PB/BB. I disagreed then with your approach; but I've since learned a lot from you (and some other posters on this board) about the failures of your union.

Had I been in your shoes I'm damned sure I would have tried to do something to change things - but I can't think of how I could ever have found myself in that position - because I just moved on - and it was always up.

I honestly wish you the best in this effort; and I'm sure it will be chronicled on this board. Much as I usually disagree with Bob Owens, it was enlightening to learn of his past thwarted efforts to work for change within the union structure.

 

[TWU informer]

Thank You to all that support change.

Thank You to those that still think democracy is important.

 

[High Speed Steel]

They are easier to predict than the time of Sunrise on Oklahoma.

Just Watch and Learn.

:blink:

 

[ICEMAN]

I think Jim was a Supervisor of Fleet Service before becoming a Dispatcher, but I am not positive. I think he also was caught with some mail-order college degrees.

AMFAMAN knows more details of Little Jim's background.

I had occasion to see Jim Little's file several years
ago. He was never in any job classified as management
or supervision. For a time in the 1970s he was a load
agent, which is a non-union job, but is classified as
"office/clerical" by the NMB. I don't see the point
of this anyway. One of the lead AMFA organizers in my
area was a supervisor in a grocery store and another
had applied for supervision twice. Both experiences
were far more recent than Little's supposed stint in
supervision in the 1970s.

 

[TWU informer]

I had occasion to see Jim Little's file several years
ago. He was never in any job classified as management
or supervision. For a time in the 1970s he was a load
agent, which is a non-union job, but is classified as
"office/clerical" by the NMB. I don't see the point
of this anyway. One of the lead AMFA organizers in my
area was a supervisor in a grocery store and another
had applied for supervision twice. Both experiences
were far more recent than Little's supposed stint in
supervision in the 1970s.

ICEMAN,

You have a valid point. The real issue is that we do not get a ballot on Jim Little, rather than where we worked in the past. I feel confident that if the membership was given a ballot, Little Jim would be gone regardless of his employment history. I think John Kerrigan was a PanAm Mechanic, appointed for life to the International and wouldn't have a job or an industry company to return to if removed from office.