JetBlue,TV & AA

[Hopeful]

JETBLUE Mechanic Rates:

START BASE=21
5 YR BASE=28
LIC=2
EXPERIENCE PAY= 1 DOLLAR FOR EACH 5 YEARS EXP UP TO 10 YRS
LEAD OR INSP=2
EACH TECH RECEIVES 3000 STOCK OPTIONS
5 WKS PAID PERSONAL TIME OFF FIRST YEAR
PROFIT SHARING=LAST YEAR WAS 13.5 PERCENT OF GROSS EARNINGS



Other Airline Ramp wages:
UA: $23.39
AA: $23.01
DL: $21.77
SW: $21.00
US: $20.86
NW: $19.86>

Now Diesel8,
All you had to do was post the numbers!
They are not that paltry, I stand corrected. The stock options are nice. Profit sharing is nice.

Now if you may be more civil to me, might I ask if the stock options that are given to employees, given all at once?

 

[Steiner]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/5/2003 8:40:14 PM KCFlyer wrote:

Stiener - while Southwest's fleet utilization is far above most other airlines, the bulk of their fleet is parked overnight, providing ample opportunity for maintenance items. You seem to be implying that Southwest is somehow operating with several "hidden" maintenance issues.

Are you saying that airlines should be not for profit entities to insure that all aircraft are airworthy? You know, SWA employees have a high regard for their employer, but bottom line, at ANY airline, the mechanics name is on the dotted line saying the plane is airworthy. If it isn't and something happens, he can face criminal charges. I don't think any LUV mechanics love their company enough to do hard time for them. Nor do I think any other airline mechanics hate their company enough to sabotage one of THEIR aircraft.
----------------
[/blockquote]

KCFlyer, thanks for explaining this complicated aircraft maintenance stuff to me. If you get a chance, could do walk me through how FAA oversight works?

 

[KCFlyer]

Stiener - Who do you work for? If profit sharing is bad, is a guaranteed raise better? Is a company operating at a loss less likely to "carry maintenance issues" than one that shows a profit? Damn...first the low cost carriers are full of unqualified pilots and mechanics because they don't pay as much - then the profitable airlines are risky becasue they may be "carrying maintenance issues" in order to show a profit.

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

KC, while your insights are normally pretty close to the mark, you're way off on this one.

The FAA might be slow and stupid most of the time, but we couldn't even put a 2" x 3" decal on the inside of the aircraft which said "More Room" and the seating config of the aircraft until we had a couple pounds of paper filed with and approved by the FAA to allow it.

If they're that nit-picky about a plastic decal passing a burn test and being factored into the empty operating weight of the aircraft, do you really think that they're going to look the other way and allow someone to "carry" maintenance items over to make the balance sheet look better?

 

[KCFlyer]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/6/2003 9:09:24 AM eolesen wrote:
[P]KC, while your insights are normally pretty close to the mark, you're way off on this one. [BR][BR]The FAA might be slow and stupid most of the time, but we couldn't even put a 2" x 3" decal on the inside of the aircraft which said "More Room" and the seating config of the aircraft until we had a couple pounds of paper filed with and approved by the FAA to allow it.[BR][BR]If they're that nit-picky about a plastic decal passing a burn test and being factored into the empty operating weight of the aircraft, do you really think that they're going to look the other way and allow someone to "carry" maintenance items over to make the balance sheet look better?[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]I don't think I'm off eolesen...I think Steiners way off. His implication is that airlines that offer profit sharing might be inclined to "carry" maintenance items. My point is 180 degrees opposite. [/P]

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

Fair 'nuff. My apologies to KC.

Steiner, you're way off............

 

[Diesel8]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/6/2003 6:35:17 AM Hopeful wrote:
Now if you may be more civil to me.
[/blockquote]

"You must be one of the those starry eyed kids who think they can actually live on love."

I think I was being civil, just until you called me a fool in so many words!

Yes, the stock is given up front, however, it vest over a period of time! The employees can also participate in a CSSP, essentially bying stock at a reduced rate. You could turn around and sell these immediately, but that would incur capital gains tax.

 

[TWAnr]

[BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE]----------------[BR]On 1/6/2003 5:48:23 AM KCFlyer wrote: [BR][BR]TWAnr - does the JetBlue website happen to list the number of FA's who actually LIVE in the NYC area? [BR]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]The web site only has the following information:[BR][STRONG][BR]"Willing to relocate to within one hour driving distance from the assigned crew base. We have recently announced Ft. Lauderdale, Florida (FLL) as a new city base in addition to our existing New York City (JFK) base."[/STRONG][BR][BR]It would appear, based on the above, that the vast majority of the flight attendants are based in New York City (JFK) and are required to live no more than an hour's drive from that airport.

 

[Steiner]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/6/2003 1200 PM eolesen wrote:

Fair 'nuff. My apologies to KC.

Steiner, you're way off............
----------------
[/blockquote]

Sure Eric. Sorry for talking about the kitchen in front of the diners. Anyone need a napkin?

 

[kirkpatrick]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/5/2003 10:12:16 PM TWAnr wrote:

Based at JFK or FLL. $20 per hour based on 70 hours worked per month. $30 per hour based on 70 + hours worked per month. [/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]

The new rate for domestic FA's at AA is $50.59 for the first 67 hours and $58.18 after that.

I recall TWA advertising after the strike in '86 that starting pay on the new B scale might not be enough to cover living expenses in the NY area. It seems most people starting out lived with their parents or shared apartments with 4 or 5 others. JB employees may be willing to start low and work for euphoria for a few years, but eventually will expect pay increases.


[FONT color=#6699cc][FONT color=#000000]Pilots:[/FONT]

Salary/Benefits[/FONT]
The current pay system for First Officers is as follows:[/P]
[UL]
[LI]$50.96 /hr with a minimum guarantee of 70 hours per month.
[LI]$76.44 / hr for all hours flown in excess of 70 hours in that month.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Wow. An international purser who is language qualified can make $62.55 plus $70.66 for hours over 67.

 

[Diesel8]

Is the starting (new hire) hourly salary for a AA FA $50.59? If so, that would indeed be impressive!

 

[Winglet]

With the quick upgrade times to Captain, F/0 pay doesn't mean much if you only have it for 12-18 months. Captain pay is probably much better up to about $130k I think, but still about 30k less than major norm. If you take that into consideration (and assuming you discount the added responsibility of work PIC), pilot hourly pay (not total compensation)is probably comparable with majors . . . . The problem will come later when JB stops rapid expansion and advancement probably stagnates. Also, I doubt you'll see any movement out of JB since the majors won't be hiring for a long time and by that time JB pilots will have enough time invested that a move wouldn't make sense . . . . assuming JB is a permanent fixure in the industry.

Especially considering the industry timing and turmoil right now, pilots that have been hired by JB have a pretty good deal going. As with ANY airline, they need to be mulling over the eventual prospect of organizing as well as watching management like a hawk.

 

[kirkpatrick]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/8/2003 715 AM Diesel8 wrote:

Is the starting (new hire) hourly salary for a AA FA $50.59? If so, that would indeed be impressive!
----------------
[/blockquote]

My fault for being unclear. Starting pay at AA is $22.26 domestic, $24.34 international. That's not really such a difference for a beginner, but at AA the raises are already defined for the next 15 years. I doubt if JB newhires have that assurance.

MK

 

[Diesel8]

So, starting pay are about similar. The FA's do have a long term payscale, I have not seen it, so not sure what the numbers are.

Upgrade time at jetBlue is in the area of 1 to 2 years, 1O th year F/O pay is well above 15th year AA FA pay

 

[JBLU007]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/8/2003 10:32:02 AM kirkpatrick wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/8/2003 715 AM Diesel8 wrote:

Is the starting (new hire) hourly salary for a AA FA $50.59? If so, that would indeed be impressive!
----------------
[/blockquote]

My fault for being unclear. Starting pay at AA is $22.26 domestic, $24.34 international. That's not really such a difference for a beginner, but at AA the raises are already defined for the next 15 years. I doubt if JB newhires have that assurance.

MK

----------------
[/blockquote]
Aloha kirkpatrick,

"AA the raises are defined for the next 15 years." Thats great if you have a job in 15 years. How many years at TWA, after the Feb 1 furlough, will it take to hold a job at AA?

As for assurances at JBLU, you can be assured that they will be hiring new F/As for years to come. That you will be off reserve in just months. That your company is making money in the worst of times. That they will share the profits, match your 401k, allow you to work as much as you want and give you a piece of the company. The opportunities to advance as far as you like are huge. They have a management team that is one of the best in the industry. At least they know how to make money flying. They have the flying product the passengers want a great seat at a great price. AA, UAL, DAL, U and others have become the dinosours of an industry and some will become extinct. The others will take years to evolve into what they need to be to become profitable. They really havent change since 1978. By then JBLU will have close to 300 planes all making money.

PS. How does it feel to make money from fellow TWA F/As to trade when it was free at TWA? Dont you see that you become part of the problem by supporting this extortion. The work rules will never change as long as you, AA, and other traders are making money at it. Would you now support the trading rules at TWA for AA even though it would put you out of business?

ALOHA, 007