Jetblue To Reconsider E190 Order

[robbedagain]

that is a nice looking plane! i also like the color scheme on it!
thanks for the photo

 

[USFlyer]

Folks, it's a new fleet type and it will take some time to work the kinks out. Airlines seem to love this family of aircraft, so I don't see it going the way of the Fokkers we all love to hate.

 

[wings396]

I know that at US, we dubbed them as the EMB-180....Because everytime that they left the gate, they did a 180 and came back. From a ramp point of view, I think that they are Junk. For an A/C that was built at this time, the cargo door "Stick" is something that I would have expected on an A/C that was built in the 1960's. The cargo webbing is as time consuming as can be to remove and install as well. :down:

 

[Salmon37]

If the jet is a peice of Jungle Junk, then would you want to rethink the strategy now with under ten on the property, or would you rather take the full order and trust that the Brazilians will make everything right? You've got leverage now, you won't after the check for the last jet is cashed. I wouldn't expect your management to even hint to you that it is being dropped if they are considering it.

I agree with that. Sometimes you've got to cut your losses. For simplicity they should have bought the A318 anyway. Fits in with your fleet, doesn't double training costs, allows greater crew scheduling flexibility, etc.

If the EMB isn't the plane dump it.

 

[USAir757]

I agree with Busdriver.... B6 went after the cheap alternative, they'll have to look at the efficiency (or lack of) and all the problems that go with the 190. You get what you pay for, IMO they shouldn't have done their aircraft shopping at Walmart.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

I agree with Busdriver.... B6 went after the cheap alternative, they'll have to look at the efficiency (or lack of) and all the problems that go with the 190. You get what you pay for, IMO they shouldn't have done their aircraft shopping at Walmart.

Yeah, just like all those other A320 customers!

You and busdrvr just care about pilot pay rates, never mind the customer value, company profit etc etc etc.

You're no different than the guy who only cares what is going on in Allentown.

Spin awaaaaaay........

 

[B6Busdriver]

I agree with that. Sometimes you've got to cut your losses. For simplicity they should have bought the A318 anyway. Fits in with your fleet, doesn't double training costs, allows greater crew scheduling flexibility, etc.

If the EMB isn't the plane dump it.

It's a shame we don't have more pilots running airlines. I'm sure the management folks never thought of that. On a CASM and comfort level the 190 stands far and above what's available in the 100 seat market. Once again Boeing took their off the ball and has lost focus. The 318 is a failure that has few orders. I would bet dollars for donuts that B6 could have had 318's at or are darn close to that of the 190.

 

[CaptianBoomer]

B6 is right.....I know for a fact that the 190's are not that much cheaper than the 320's. I would bet the 318's would have been the same or less than the 190's.

But there were other issues. The 190 has no middle seats. They come prewired with the LTV and the XM. They are hardwired for HUDS. The airplane is going to eclipse everything in the 100 seat market. All they have to do is work out the kinks in the new airplane electronix crap and away they go.

Word is the BOS-JFK turns are averaging 90+ % LF's. I think they should go to busses on at least some of the trips full time and leave the 190's to develop some other markets (like JFK-AUS and maybe even FLL to some island destinations.)

A350

 

[ISP]

They are hardwired for HUDS.

Hardwired indeed, however, apparantly not functional as of yet... as a result, all JFK-BOS-JFK flights this afternoon were cancelled on the E190 due to "fog" and the A320 ran all flights.

 

[B.O.B.]

Sure can...

She's cute! A little small in the can, but I like the slim ones

Wow look at that! A supersized RJ and with the latest passenger polls, RJ's are less appealing then before. Are you sure Neelman isn't smoking something he shouldn't be?

Good news for B6BusDriver... he can fly the new 190 through the Dunkin Donuts drive-thru, because it's so small.

The 190's nickname is... "Reject Jet" for those who have graduated from the 50 seat and are not ready for the real big planes like the 777, 747, 340, 767 or 330.

 

[autofixer]

Supposedly...the reason the A318 and 737-600 are failures is weight. They are heavy for the pax capacity that they can carry and taxes (landing fees) are based on gross weight. The E190 is built to be light,thus, it achieves lower costs (taxes) vs. the Airbus and Boeing nd lighter jets also equal lower fuel burn.

As usual, it looks good on paper; however, it may not translate into reality. (This is the problem with MBAs running airlines)

 

[Dizel8]

IIRC, the E-190 is cheaper than the A-318, at least that is what I was told. It probably helps being launch customer as well.

The A-318 is relatively heavy, since it is essentially a shrunken A-320, but without the resultant weightloss. Hence fuelburn is higher as is cost to operate, plus the engine differs from the A-319/320.

190 318
Max take off 105 130
Empty 62 86
Ldg 95 123

All numbers in pounds x 1000


It is disappointing to see the early results of the 190, would have thought, that since it is a stretched 170, that most of the quirks and gremlins would have been worked out. It appears not, however, I have little doubt, despite these early problems, that the airplane will work out for its intended mission.

 

[CaptianBoomer]

ISP.....maybe you should ask why the 190's were grounded. It wasn't the HUD....if fact, even if the HUD was installed the result would have been the same.

The 190 is a CAT 1 airplane because it isn't certified to do CAT 2 and 3 ILS approaches, yet. Add to this the fact that all new part 121 Captains cannot land the jet in visibility less than RVR 5000 without an exemption, you will find out why, with visibility of 1200 feet (one quarter mile) at JFK that the 190's were sitting out the afternoon. The Airbus can land with visibility of 600 feet.

Boomer

 

[MTSUSigEp430]

What I don't get is if Neeleman was from the SWA family, why didn't he stick with the proven one type a/c fleet and focus on his route growth rather than add to the fleet?

 

[767jetz]

Lets not forget the all important factor, so important to B6 management, which is the establishment of a lower payscale for the pilots. They saw this as an opportunity to combat the "creep" in crew costs as pilots wages inch up with seniority. It also gives them the future option of moving flying from the 320 back to the B-scale 190's.

The 318 would have paid the same as the 320 since it's the same airplane. It would have been a hard sell using the "but it's only an RJ" argument with the 318.